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  • Originally posted by Ballet Mom View Post
    Even Dr. Betz in his studies states that bracing is successful in 50% to 80% of cases.
    Can you post the link to such study?? I'd be very interested in it. Thanks.
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

    http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

    Comment


    • Can you post the link to such study?? I'd be very interested in it. Thanks.
      "SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA: The success rate of brace treatment of adolescent idiopathic scoliosis ranges from 50% to 82%"

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14560201

      Comment


      • the current parameters ARE posted on the VBS site
        You state that curves should be less than 45 degrees. I believe they are much less than that at this point.


        you call the site a professional VBS forum (whatever that means)
        to their private non-medical professional VBS forum

        You missed the non.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ballet Mom View Post
          You state that curves should be less than 45 degrees. I believe they are much less than that at this point.
          Again, you are looking quickly but not reading thoroughly. If you had read all the posts on the VBS site - and heard from as many VBS parents as I have and/or spoken to doctors who perform this procedure as I have - you would know that for a SELECT group of patients, VBS can be an option even for curves in the low 40's. These are, again, very select cases - usually younger kids whose curves are very flexible. In a lot of cases, the cut-off is 35 or 40 degrees - it varies depending on a lot of factors.

          Why are you even bringing up these points (which have not been accurate) if you have no interest in VBS? Or am I mistaken - are you currently considering it? Just curious.
          mariaf305@yahoo.com
          Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
          Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

          https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

          http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

          Comment


          • I am simply reading the information you have in front of your i.d. wall. I have not read the forum in a long time because you have added an i.d. to read anything there and I don't wish to get an i.d.

            I actually had my daughter checked out for the possibility of VBS, because of your visits to this site, when my daughter was first diagnosed and told that she would probably progress to surgery. The surgeon told me that at her initial 35 degrees she was not eligible for VBS as they had found that the size of the curves are being found to be smaller and smaller that will be in the stapling range. (And my daughter has an extremely flexible curve). I had not read yet about the surgeons who believe that stapling might not be the right thing to be doing. I simply was reading the hype surrounding the VBS and feeling desperate.

            I actually consider myself quite fortunate because, if I had believed everything on this forum, my daughter's bracing would have been unsuccessful and actually, it has been wonderfully successful. I was able to watch my daughter in ballet class yesterday and was thanking God that she looked so good and was still able to do her ballet, her passion. We have been very fortunate.
            Last edited by Ballet Mom; 06-29-2009, 04:12 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ballet Mom View Post
              Pooka,




              Seeing as he has directly seen his kids avoid surgery by utilizing braces, I hardly think your comment is even close to being accurate. And I've read about many successful bracing stories also, including my own child with a rapidly progressing curve. Even Dr. Betz in his studies states that bracing is successful in 50% to 80% of cases.
              You don't get it.
              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

              No island of sanity.

              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
              Answer: Medicine


              "We are all African."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ballet Mom View Post
                quote from txmarinemom

                Proving Pooka's belief that most research is false for various reasons.
                An Emily Litella moment. You aren't even a little bit correct. You clearly don't understand how science works to make that statement.
                Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                No island of sanity.

                Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                Answer: Medicine


                "We are all African."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ballet Mom View Post
                  I actually had my daughter checked out for the possibility of VBS, because of your visits to this site, when my daughter was first diagnosed and told that she would probably progress to surgery. The surgeon told me that at her initial 35 degrees she was not eligible for VBS as they had found that the size of the curves are being found to be smaller and smaller that will be in the stapling range. (And my daughter has an extremely flexible curve). I had not read yet about the surgeons who believe that stapling might not be the right thing to be doing. I simply was reading the hype surrounding the VBS and feeling desperate.
                  I am very surprised to hear that a child with a 35 degree curve, who was "extremely flexible" would be immediately disqualified as a candidate for VBS. Flexibility is an important factor in determining candidacy for VBS, as is degree of curvature (35 being still "within the range").

                  I was going to say that perhaps there were other factors - such as her age -that played a part, but that doesn't make sense either since I assume she has some growth left if she is being braced. If she were done, or nearly done growing that would be a different story.

                  In all honesty, I'm very puzzled by this. The only thing I can figure is that perhaps the surgeon is not someone who has done [many] VBS procedures. There are a lot of surgeons who, because they are unfamiliar with VBS (meaning they have heard of it but are not really involved in seeing a lot of cases and don't know everything about it), don't feel comfortable recommending it. I can't tell you how many times I have heard of this happening, only to have the patient then see a VBS-trained surgeon who considered the patient a candidate. Of course, it is not "the right thing to be doing" in all cases - no doctor will tell you it is - only certain patients fit the criteria. Many are told the VBS is not the right choice for them.

                  By the way, I just read a post on the VBS site about a girl who had VBS several months ago. She is 8 years old and started with a 36 degree curve. I'm guessing the curve was flexible because her curve now measures less than 5 degrees. I bring this up to point out that 35 degrees should not automatically disqualify someone for VBS (unless there are some extenuating circumstances.)

                  Best of luck to your daughter.
                  mariaf305@yahoo.com
                  Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
                  Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

                  https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

                  http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by concerned dad View Post

                    (Snipped)

                    I would agree with Joe that Maria's signature probably steers more traffic to the VBS site than any obscure link page.

                    I think it would be equally (if not more) helpful to include a link to the european scoliosis support forum.

                    Also, maybe a link to the SOSORT website and the online Scoliosis Journal website. (I mean, Joe is active in SOSORT isnt he? Do you think they are offended he hasnt gotten around to linking to them - he does link to SRS. Does that mean he doesnt condone or respect SOSORT? I suspect he just hasnt gotten around to updating his links - he probably can look at page traffic and that page may get limited hits, so limited to make it not worthwhile to bother right now)

                    I also think that removing the link to here from the VBS site is petty. Who does that help and hurt? I dont think it hurts NSF but it does hurt the parents at VBS who may find useful info here.

                    Just my 2 cents.
                    Agree with the above CD. Have been looking through the NSF web pages. Maybe something about VBS could be posted under Frequently Asked Questions - along with a brief explanation including the link to SRS reports.

                    There's a LOT of information on the home page and the SOSORT link does appear there, albeit this is for 2008 vs 2009. The Scoliosis Journal link appears on the SOSORT page. Would be nice not to have to search that hard for it and have in on the NSF Home Page.

                    A search option for such things on the NSF web pages would also be helpful.

                    He is an enormously busy man (reference posting #1) - I'm sure its just going to take some time to update web pages, and as Linda said - maybe this is done on a volunteer basis.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by concerned dad View Post
                      Maybe he needs to hire a web guy to modify the site and is waiting to include it in the next update.
                      No we can be very sure that is not the reason because rather than post old emails, he would have said he intends to put the link up but is awaiting help form a volunteer.

                      Faith versus evidence.

                      If you are trained to trust faith over evidence, it can spill over into things where the rubber meets the road like scoliosis treatments where all hell breaks loose.
                      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                      No island of sanity.

                      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                      Answer: Medicine


                      "We are all African."

                      Comment


                      • The only thing I can figure is that perhaps the surgeon is not someone who has done [many] VBS procedures. There are a lot of surgeons who, because they are unfamiliar with VBS (meaning they have heard of it but are not really involved in seeing a lot of cases and don't know everything about it), don't feel comfortable recommending it.
                        No, it's not that. This was a surgeon off the list on your website. I don't know of anything else that would have caused her not to qualify. She had a negative four degree Cobb angle on her Charleston Bending Brace and a negative five degree Cobb angle on her new custom made brace that she received in May, so it is certainly not her spine flexibility. And my daughter was at a Risser 0 when we went to this surgeon.

                        Comment


                        • Faith vs Evidence

                          Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
                          No we can be very sure that is not the reason because rather than post old emails, he would have said he intends to put the link up but is awaiting help form a volunteer.

                          Faith versus evidence.

                          If you are trained to trust faith over evidence, it can spill over into things where the rubber meets the road like scoliosis treatments where all hell breaks loose.
                          Faith verses Evidence:

                          Without faith - what a truly grim world it would be. Sometimes, faith (by the primary definition) is required over evidence in order to solve a large puzzle in the face of grand obstacles.

                          Primary definition of faith: confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.

                          Example: Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church, but they were truly religious men because of their faith in the orderliness of the universe (Albert Einstein).

                          I'm not sure that i can see anything wrong with faith as it may be the inspiration that brought mankind out of the cave :-)

                          How can there be faith over evidence when - to trust evidence alone - is to have faith in evidence?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mamamax View Post
                            Faith verses Evidence:

                            Without faith - what a truly grim world it would be. Sometimes, faith (by the primary definition) is required over evidence in order to solve a large puzzle in the face of grand obstacles.

                            Primary definition of faith: confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
                            If you have evidence, you don't need faith. You can bet your bottom dollar every sane person would gladly exchange their faith for evidence for something. This is beyond obvious. Yes/No?

                            Example: Scientists were rated as great heretics by the church, but they were truly religious men because of their faith in the orderliness of the universe (Albert Einstein).
                            It is very unfortunate that Einstein used religious metaphors in his writing. See his direct quotes on this. As he said on so many occasions, of course he is not a theist. It's annoying and sickening to constantly see him claimed as a theist but it's partly his own fault.

                            ETA: The orderliness of the universe and the universal laws are precisely the things for which that Einstein used the religious metaphors as shown by the quote. But we know, as did Einstein, that the more education you get, the less likely you are to be religious. In fact ~93% of the top scientists in the US reject the idea of a personal god. Science makes religion optional. Brute facts trump wishful faith when you know those facts.

                            “I do not believe in a personal God and have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.” -- A. Einstein

                            "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being." -- A. Einstein

                            From this we might say he was an agnostic but all agnostics are atheists (because they don't believe). But it is arguable he is just giving too much respect to the social taboo against criticizing religion. If he were alive today, I suspect he would admit to being an atheist as most top scientists today do.

                            I'm not sure that i can see anything wrong with faith as it may be the inspiration that brought mankind out of the cave :-)
                            Well, it's a relief you realize people didn't get magicked into existence a few thousand years ago. I have faith that there is hope for you to understand basic scientific facts.

                            How can there be faith over evidence when - to trust evidence alone - is to have faith in evidence?
                            That is an epistemological question that has been handled elsewhere and would be very off topic here. Google it.
                            Last edited by Pooka1; 06-30-2009, 05:59 AM.
                            Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                            No island of sanity.

                            Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                            Answer: Medicine


                            "We are all African."

                            Comment


                            • Morning Sharon - sometimes i love debating with you and this is one of them, and i am glad you have faith that there is hope for me to understand basic scientific facts. I love science actually - it is a grand mystery. Sorry for going a little off topic but seems we all do that from time to time - and faith is something i love as much as science .. both grand mysteries with many unexpected answers. Have a great one -

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mamamax View Post
                                Morning Sharon - sometimes i love debating with you and this is one of them, and i am glad you have faith that there is hope for me to understand basic scientific facts. I love science actually - it is a grand mystery. Sorry for going a little off topic but seems we all do that from time to time - and faith is something i love as much as science .. both grand mysteries with many unexpected answers. Have a great one -
                                Thanks Mamamax! Very kind of you. Same to you!
                                Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                                No island of sanity.

                                Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                                Answer: Medicine


                                "We are all African."

                                Comment

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