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  • OMG, this is becoming another case of someone posting the same thing (ala BETAll) over and over again, in this case in an attempt at some free advertising for Dr. Deutchman!

    I also can't stop laughing since I read that he (Deutchman) apparently uses a DIGITAL PROTRACTOR and that's how he alone is able to measure curves to within 1/10 of a degree when, as Pam said, the BEST doctors in the world admit there is a 5 degree margin of error. I hope nobody buys this HOGWASH!!

    By the way, isn't Dr. Deutchman the guy who tried to con some parents into paying for vestibular testing claiming that there was a connection between scoliosis and one's inner ear!!!???? I believe there are several posts on this forum on that topic.
    Last edited by mariaf; 09-07-2008, 08:23 AM.
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

    http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

    Comment


    • Originally posted by mariaf View Post
      I also can't stop laughing since I read that he (Deutchman) apparently uses a DIGITAL PROTRACTOR and that's how he alone is able to measure curves to within 1/10 of a degree when, as Pam said, the BEST doctors in the world admit there is a 5 degree margin of error. I hope nobody buys this HOGWASH!!
      Maybe The Nobel prize folks need to add a new category for

      "Measuring Cobb angles to a tenth of a degree."

      Normally I'd suggest they just give Deutchman the Nobel in physiology or medicine but this breakthrough is of such a large magnitude that I think it warrants a whole new category of prizes.
      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

      No island of sanity.

      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
      Answer: Medicine


      "We are all African."

      Comment


      • Yes, Sharon - and doesn't a "digital protractor" sound like something you've seen on your child's school supply lists??? LOL!!!

        Sorry, but I still find that hysterical.
        mariaf305@yahoo.com
        Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
        Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

        https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

        http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mariaf View Post
          Yes, Sharon - and doesn't a "digital protractor" sound like something you've seen on your child's school supply lists??? LOL!!!

          Sorry, but I still find that hysterical.
          That's a good one but I'm kind of partial to the "12 rods" thing myself.

          The "Twelve Rods Path," sort of like the "Eight-Fold Path"...

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path

          Why is Spinecor advertising now? That is the more interesting question to me.
          Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

          No island of sanity.

          Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
          Answer: Medicine


          "We are all African."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
            Why is Spinecor advertising now? That is the more interesting question to me.
            It is even MORE interesting to me since the term "advertising" was used in the past regarding the fact that I (and a few other members) were letting people know that the option of VBS existed.

            I never quite understood why THAT treatment method was singled out and everything else, including Spinecor which is also a relatively new treatment alternative, could be posted about constantly without anyone questioning that those folks were "advertising".

            In fact, back when only Shriners was performing VBS, nobody was making a dime off the procedure since Shriners does not charge for their services. I doubt the prescribers of Spinecor can say the same, so wouldn't that make posts regarding Spinecor closer to "advertising" since someone is profiting from it????

            VERY interesting indeed............
            mariaf305@yahoo.com
            Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
            Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

            https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

            http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

            Comment


            • Yes I agree Maria.

              There is no comparison between recommendation by anyone of VBS and Spinecor.

              Spinecor is a bracing technique (in a world where bracing efficacy in general is questioned) that costs an arm and a leg and has most of its publishing ahead of it to prove efficacy.

              VBS is a surgical technique with some publications under its belt and is free from the Shriner's hospitals.

              The Shriner's doctors seem to have their dance card perennially full and so it doesn't see like they have to advertise. Spinecor doesn't see to be in that boat just in terms of how much they get away with charging for the materials and service.
              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

              No island of sanity.

              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
              Answer: Medicine


              "We are all African."

              Comment


              • Well said, Sharon. In fact, the wait to even be seen at Shriners can sometimes be months so, no, they surely don't need to advertise or recruit for patients as some have ridiculously alleged in the past.
                mariaf305@yahoo.com
                Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
                Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

                https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

                http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

                Comment


                • OMG, not you 3 again!

                  Will you please go away and leave us in peace?
                  UK based Mum of Imogen, 38 degree curve at 9 years old. SpineCor since 15/6/07, 31 degrees in brace.
                  10th December 07 - 27 degrees, 23rd June 08 - 26 degrees, Feb 09 - 24 degrees, Aug 09 - 35 degrees, Jul 10 - 47 degrees, Dec 10 - 50+ degrees.
                  Surgery due to take place early December 2011 at the RNOH, England.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by RugbyLaura View Post
                    OMG, not you 3 again!

                    Will you please go away and leave us in peace?


                    You're not a woo-woo, remember?

                    The claims from the new poster are far into the "woo-woo" category on several different fronts.

                    We can criticize the woo-woo without criticizing Spinecor.

                    But it is interesting why they are advertising now.
                    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                    No island of sanity.

                    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                    Answer: Medicine


                    "We are all African."

                    Comment


                    • Okay, okay. Sorry I snapped.

                      I honestly don't think it's The Spine Corporation people advertising; they have too much class to pull a stunt like this. You never know, she may be legit??!! Stranger things have happened.

                      I know that when I first discovered Spinecor I was fairly evangelical about it too.

                      Thanks for putting me straight though!

                      x
                      UK based Mum of Imogen, 38 degree curve at 9 years old. SpineCor since 15/6/07, 31 degrees in brace.
                      10th December 07 - 27 degrees, 23rd June 08 - 26 degrees, Feb 09 - 24 degrees, Aug 09 - 35 degrees, Jul 10 - 47 degrees, Dec 10 - 50+ degrees.
                      Surgery due to take place early December 2011 at the RNOH, England.

                      Comment


                      • Evangelical is fine.

                        But when you were evangelical, I'm sure you weren't claiming tenth of a degree precision in Cobb angle measurements and the alternative to bracing being 12-rod surgery.

                        You and this poster don't overlap in the credibility department AT ALL. You are at one end with us non-woo-woos and the poster appears to be pegged at the other end.
                        Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                        No island of sanity.

                        Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                        Answer: Medicine


                        "We are all African."

                        Comment


                        • Laura ...

                          Apologies for the interruption to point out Deutschman's advertising (and, BTW, I do believe it's HIM again vs. Spinecor ... he's a repeat offender), but dsicequeens claims were so ridiculous I couldn't, in good conscience, let them stand.

                          Her entire post was full of misinformation (or worse). My only reason for responding here was to point anyone buying her story to the other thread (same post) she started. I didn't say a word against Spinecor: I just wanted to make sure the inaccuracies and impossibilities she claimed were known.

                          I guarantee you, had no one said anything, ~someone~ would have believed them. They may have anyway.

                          Between Deutchsman and the chiro that stole my surgical photos from here (and used them on his website to show people the horrible surgery they'd need if they didn't let him "cure" them), I have very little respect for that profession.

                          Pass the soap, Sharon.

                          Regards,
                          Pam
                          Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
                          AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


                          41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
                          Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
                          Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


                          VIEW MY X-RAYS
                          EMAIL ME

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RugbyLaura View Post
                            OMG, not you 3 again!

                            Will you please go away and leave us in peace?
                            Leave WHO in peace???

                            Once again, you have resorted to hostility (i.e., your comments that we should "go away"). I don't understand WHY you feel the need to get so defensive right away. It's as if nobody can question ANYTHING related to Spinecor (in this case, we weren't even referring to Spinecor but rather were talking about Dr. Deutchman).

                            You ask to be "left in peace". Funny, I had hoped for that same thing when I would post in the past regarding VBS and would be interupted over and over again by folks, including yourself, who had NO personal experience with, or knowledge of, the procedure.

                            At least I was sharing from personal experience, what I had learned, and was posting valid information that I had gotten from extremely reputable orthopedic surgeons, not quacks like Deutchman.

                            And now you seem to have a problem because "us 3" are questioning someone who claims to use TWELVE RODS and have the ability to measure one's curve to within a tenth of an inch???!!!
                            Last edited by mariaf; 09-07-2008, 08:27 PM.
                            mariaf305@yahoo.com
                            Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
                            Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

                            https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

                            http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

                            Comment


                            • Ah, Pam makes a good point. It is likely NOT Spinecor but Deutchman who is advertising.

                              That makes mucho more sense. Those wacky chiro types! <waving my fist in the air wildly>

                              In re claims, it's okay to be evangelical for Spinecor or VBS or whatever. What isn't okay is making counterfactual claims.

                              The offending poster in this case made several counterfactual claims. Aside from all those, I think it is known that Spinecor can help alleviate pain in adults.
                              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                              No island of sanity.

                              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                              Answer: Medicine


                              "We are all African."

                              Comment


                              • I don't know anything about Dr. Deutschman, but I have been dealing with the inventors of spinecor over the past year and I, too, would be shocked if they would post fake testimonials on spinecor. In fact, Dr. Rivard was nothing but forthcoming to us. He made no promises but did explain to us who the better candidates for spinecor were and how my daughter fit into that profile. Then when we we got a really good in brace correction he did provide hope (not promises) that we can hopefully hold the curve for the next couple years, but even he pointed out that it will be a challenge to hold her curve during her peak velocity growth period. He didn't even talk about permanently reducing her curve (out of brace). Very realistic. No hard sell. No miracle claims. If so, we would have run for the hills. However, there have been individuals who have had fantastic results which does provide some hope for the rest of us-even though we won't all be that lucky. Hopefully over time they will be able to further refine a subset of candidates that are most likely to have successful results. Unfortunately these things take time and we have to make our decisions today.

                                The takeaway is to take everything with a grain of salt and if you hear something interesting on these boards, independently verify before you make decisions based upon posts on the internet. But I just wanted to chime in that even if somebody is posting "advertisements" on behalf of a spinecor provider, that doesn't mean the entire spinecor system is not reputable (which several of you have already pointed out, above. just chiming in with my agreement). I don't want somebody to be turned off from even considering spinecor if it might be a good fit for their child. It's not for everybody, but it is a valid option for many to consider.
                                daughter, 12, diagnosed 8/07 with 19T/13L
                                -Braced in spinecor 10/07 - 8/12 with excellent in brace correction and stable/slightly decreased out of brace curves.
                                -Introduced Providence brace as adjunct at night in 11/2011 in anticipation of growth spurt. Curves still stable.
                                -Currently in Boston Brace. Growth spurt is here and curves (and rotation) have increased to 23T/17L

                                Comment

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