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  • Originally posted by mamamax View Post
    Linda -

    If a rigidity is lessened by exercise - is this not an improvement?

    If you have a copy of the book which contains the passage I offered, you will see that this is not in reference to cobb angle reduction but rather, in reference to a discussion regarding structural and functional curves. I'm not sure why you are referencing traction, exercise was the key component.

    Bty, I did not underline the word "improve" for emphasis in my original posting .. you're doing so (to my message) in a reply was a little deceptive ;-)

    We can see that there is a potential important connection between chest wall improvement and and the spine through the work of Hawes over a period of fifteen years. This connection may explain why we see improvement in those who engage in exercise that improve the chest wall.

    Have people been studying the role of exercise which improves chest wall in relation to scoliosis for hundreds of years? I don't think so.
    This is the entire abstract of the referenced study:
    Cotrel traction, exercises, casting in the treatment of idiopathic scoliosis. A pilot study and prospective randomized controlled clinical trial.

    Dickson RA, Leatherman KD.

    A pilot study of ten individuals with adolescent-onset idiopathic scoliosis demonstrated that a week of Cotrel traction and exercises did not improve curve correction obtained by the application of an elongation, derotation, flexion (EDF) cast. There was, however, a significant improvement on lateral bending correction during this period. A prospective, randomized, controlled clinical trial showed that the exercise programme and not the traction was responsible for rendering the spine less rigid.

    As far as I know, there is no proof that flexibility has any permanent effect on curve improvement.
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

    Comment


    • Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
      As far as I know, there is no proof that flexibility has any permanent effect on curve improvement.
      And for all we know, increased flexibility might be detrimental if the rigidity is slowing the progression. That is the progression is faster/more extreme after starting then stopping PT than that associated with never having started.

      It's a bunch of unknown unknowns. Speculation is futile.
      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

      No island of sanity.

      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
      Answer: Medicine


      "We are all African."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
        This is the entire abstract of the referenced study:
        Cotrel traction, exercises, casting in the treatment of idiopathic scoliosis. A pilot study and prospective randomized controlled clinical trial.

        Dickson RA, Leatherman KD.

        A pilot study of ten individuals with adolescent-onset idiopathic scoliosis demonstrated that a week of Cotrel traction and exercises did not improve curve correction obtained by the application of an elongation, derotation, flexion (EDF) cast. There was, however, a significant improvement on lateral bending correction during this period. A prospective, randomized, controlled clinical trial showed that the exercise programme and not the traction was responsible for rendering the spine less rigid.

        As far as I know, there is no proof that flexibility has any permanent effect on curve improvement.
        Exactly - and that is why this study was referenced in a section discussing functional and structural curves - to show reference in the literature that exercise was shown to lessen rigidity. Anyone who has the book can see this - page 15.

        Can you give us the full study that shows that exercise did this in 8 days?

        Lets not talk about permanent - it leads to a rather depressing discussion ... since there is no proof that anything is.

        We all know the importance of maintenance.

        Interested in your response to my post #105 (outside said study)
        Last edited by mamamax; 01-09-2010, 08:00 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mamamax View Post
          [COLOR="Navy"]

          If a rigidity is lessened by exercise - is this not an improvement?
          As I said above, there's no way of knowing. It could be detrimental.

          Originally posted by mamamax View Post
          [COLOR="Navy"]Have people been studying the role of exercise which improves chest wall in relation to scoliosis for hundreds of years? I don't think so.
          Every time we post data that shoots down one of your theories, you focus on a new one. I'm fine with you chasing all of these things, but I still think it's irresponsible to try to convince others to join you until there's some proof that it's going to work on a large scale.
          Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
          Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

          Comment


          • Linda -
            You state to me ...
            Every time we post data that shoots down one of your theories, you focus on a new one. I'm fine with you chasing all of these things, but I still think it's irresponsible to try to convince others to join you until there's some proof that it's going to work on a large scale.

            That is really interesting.

            Firstly I don't see any "we" shooting down one of my theories. What I see is a discussion. Secondly, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything - I have simply been involved in a discussion.

            Is there some reason I should not discuss things like everyone else here?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
              I'm fine with you chasing all of these things, but I still think it's irresponsible to try to convince others to join you until there's some proof that it's going to work on a large scale.
              In my little opinion, Mamamax is bush league in that regard compared to certain other players in this sandbox who are truly reckless and dangerously mislead innocent peeps.
              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

              No island of sanity.

              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
              Answer: Medicine


              "We are all African."

              Comment


              • Thanks Sharon

                I do my best :-)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mamamax View Post
                  Thanks Sharon

                  I do my best :-)
                  What are buddies for?
                  Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                  No island of sanity.

                  Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                  Answer: Medicine


                  "We are all African."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
                    What are buddies for?

                    High-Five

                    Think it's time for a hamster joke

                    Comment


                    • I don't have a joke but I have the original "Hamster Dance"

                      http://www.webhamster.com/
                      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                      No island of sanity.

                      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                      Answer: Medicine


                      "We are all African."

                      Comment


                      • A few corrections/clarifications:

                        * Because the standard treatment for scoliosis is surgery, there's a tendency to compare other treatments to it on the basis of "permanence." That's not, in general, how we evaluate medical treatments. Many diseases are "managed" - think of asthma and blood pressure medicines, or even diet and exercise for obesity. For any disease, like scoliosis, in which there is no cure, all solutions are imperfect. Surgery, while permanent, also permanently disfigures and has a host of serious risks. (And, in up to 25% of the cases, is not even permanent.) Exercise, while needing ongoing applications to "manage" the disorder, is less risky and less disfiguring (if, big if, it avoids surgery).

                        * I think it's misleading to refer to exercise as "being studied for hundreds of years." Surgery, too, was studied for hundreds of years, and the first few hundred of years worth of results were pretty terrifying. We've only seen acceptable results within the last 50 years or so, and only good results in the last 5 years or so.

                        * Likewise, as surgery has advanced, exercise has also advanced. It's only within the last 10 years that I've seen reports of patients being able to hold a curve reduction with exercise.

                        Comment


                        • Damn! I missed the transition to hamsters again! I must start paying better attention to the topic!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
                            I don't have a joke but I have the original "Hamster Dance"

                            http://www.webhamster.com/
                            LOL and falling on the floor!! Thank you Sharon - forwarding this to a lot of people I know who could use a little stress relief!

                            Beautiful!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by hdugger View Post
                              Damn! I missed the transition to hamsters again! I must start paying better attention to the topic!
                              You snooze, you lose. However in this case, regarding hamsters, it's always a win.
                              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                              No island of sanity.

                              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                              Answer: Medicine


                              "We are all African."

                              Comment


                              • I love the hamsters - thanks for the smile. Yes, definitely needed that.
                                Thanksagain...
                                Rita Thompson
                                Age 46
                                Milwaukee Brace wearer for 3 years in childhood
                                Surgery Mar 1st - 95 degree thoracic curve
                                Surgery by Dr. Lenke, St. Louis, MO
                                Post-surgery curve 25-30 degree

                                Comment

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