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  • #61
    Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
    Decided to do about what?
    Her patient. She was prepared for surgery, yes?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
      It's difficult to see wedging in films, and I would assume that cases such as the one Dr. Hu mentioned are very rare. Functional scoliosis curves almost always straighten on forward bending.
      I see. Thanks. Is wedging seen better with some other procedure? Like an MRI?

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by mamamax View Post
        Her patient. She was prepared for surgery, yes?
        They woke her up and sent her home.
        Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
        Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by mamamax View Post
          I see. Thanks. Is wedging seen better with some other procedure? Like an MRI?
          I don't know. I'm starting my new job tomorrow, so I'll ask one of the surgeons if they ever look for wedging. From what Dr. Hu told me, this is something very rare. I suspect we've made far more of an issue of it here than it's worth.
          Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
          Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
            I suspect we've made far more of an issue of it here than it's worth.
            Bingo.

            ....
            Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

            No island of sanity.

            Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
            Answer: Medicine


            "We are all African."

            Comment


            • #66
              Ok, back to hampsters now.

              http://www.flickr.com/photos/victori...7622864971354/

              I dont think my cat Bad kitty, would put up with any of this. LOL
              Ed
              49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
              Pre surgery curves T70,L70
              ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
              Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

              Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
              http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

              My x-rays
              http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

              http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by titaniumed View Post
                Ok, back to hampsters now.

                http://www.flickr.com/photos/victori...7622864971354/

                I dont think my cat Bad kitty, would put up with any of this. LOL
                Ed
                GENIUS!

                Pure genius.

                Maybe that hamster got a new cooking apron for Christmas!
                Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                No island of sanity.

                Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                Answer: Medicine


                "We are all African."

                Comment


                • #68
                  evil genius

                  A couple of cocktails,rub a little catnip into the hamsters fur, give the command "Go get the mousie", and another Christmas would be destroyed again.

                  Ahhhh.....

                  Ed
                  49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
                  Pre surgery curves T70,L70
                  ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
                  Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

                  Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
                  http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

                  My x-rays
                  http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

                  http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Belated Christmas present for Ti Ed and all the materials engineers (or any engineers) out there...

                    World's smallest snowman

                    http://www.npl.co.uk/educate-explore/christmas/
                    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                    No island of sanity.

                    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                    Answer: Medicine


                    "We are all African."

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
                      I don't know. I'm starting my new job tomorrow, so I'll ask one of the surgeons if they ever look for wedging. From what Dr. Hu told me, this is something very rare. I suspect we've made far more of an issue of it here than it's worth.
                      Thanks Linda. Just color me curious. You know, I don't think I made a big issue out of it - but I do think it was astounding that this patient's scoliosis disappeared after being prepped for surgery. And that it was even more astounding that the curvature presented as structural (from the bending xrays).

                      How often does that happen and is there even any literature on it? Does it happen often enough that there is a term for it? I also wonder if Dr. Hu followed up with this patient - i.e., did her curve return after being sent home. A most unusual thing - I think.

                      On a humorous note - if this happens often with Dr. Hu - then where do I sign up for a consult? :-)

                      p.s. Best of luck on the new job!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by mamamax View Post
                        Thanks Linda. Just color me curious. You know, I don't think I made a big issue out of it - but I do think it was astounding that this patient's scoliosis disappeared after being prepped for surgery. And that it was even more astounding that the curvature presented as structural (from the bending xrays).

                        How often does that happen and is there even any literature on it? Does it happen often enough that there is a term for it? I also wonder if Dr. Hu followed up with this patient - i.e., did her curve return after being sent home. A most unusual thing - I think.

                        On a humorous note - if this happens often with Dr. Hu - then where do I sign up for a consult? :-)

                        p.s. Best of luck on the new job!
                        Bending xrays do not DX or rule out structural curves.

                        As I said, I think this is a very rare thing. I don't think it happened to Dr. Hu before this, and I've never heard any other surgeon talk about something like this. My understanding is that this young woman was able to hold the curve because of strong core strength. But, when she was anesthesized, her muscles relaxed and the curve completely straightened.

                        By the way, it is typical that flexible curves straighten significantly when the patient is face down on the operating table. The first surgery I observed was a teenager. I came in just before they were draping her back, and I noticed how small her curve appeared. I was actually concerned, thinking that the surgeon was operating on a small curve. In reality this teen had a 60-something curve. I suspect this is why we see some people who are able to reduce their curves somewhat with exercise or other alternatives. But, as I've said before, I am certain that those curves return when the treatment is discontinued.

                        --Linda
                        Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
                        Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
                          By the way, it is typical that flexible curves straighten significantly when the patient is face down on the operating table. The first surgery I observed was a teenager. I came in just before they were draping her back, and I noticed how small her curve appeared. I was actually concerned, thinking that the surgeon was operating on a small curve. In reality this teen had a 60-something curve. I suspect this is why we see some people who are able to reduce their curves somewhat with exercise or other alternatives. But, as I've said before, I am certain that those curves return when the treatment is discontinued.
                          That is very interesting.

                          I was at first amazed how quickly the compensatory L curve disappeared in my girls; most/all was gone by the first radiograph at Day 4. I assumed the spine quickly straightened over a few days in response to the upper portion being straightened surgically. As I understand what you wrote, the compensatory curve probably disappeared on the table before the surgery and never developed again.

                          And WRT to PT halting/reducing curves, it seems like maybe the people who do manage temporary haltings/reductions are just the flexible ones. And maybe no amount of PT will halt/reduce a stiff curve.
                          Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                          No island of sanity.

                          Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                          Answer: Medicine


                          "We are all African."

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
                            And WRT to PT halting/reducing curves, it seems like maybe the people who do manage temporary haltings/reductions are just the flexible ones. And maybe no amount of PT will halt/reduce a stiff curve.
                            I think that's more or less what the SEAS people suggest, assuming that a "flexible" curve is a curve where a good amount of the curveture is due to muscles and ligaments while a "stiff" curve is mainly due to the shape of the bone. The hypothesis is that exercise can get you back to the point where, when standing, all you see if the effect of the bony curve. For a flexible curve, this will be a big improvement, while for a stiff curve it won't be any change at all.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by hdugger View Post
                              I think that's more or less what the SEAS people suggest, assuming that a "flexible" curve is a curve where a good amount of the curveture is due to muscles and ligaments while a "stiff" curve is mainly due to the shape of the bone. The hypothesis is that exercise can get you back to the point where, when standing, all you see if the effect of the bony curve. For a flexible curve, this will be a big improvement, while for a stiff curve it won't be any change at all.
                              It does seem that way - and then there is Martha, whose curves were quite stiff and her deformity rigid. And yet, for the last fifteen years she continues to progressively reduce the magnitude. So, that is very interesting. From age 11 to 40, she performed a selected set of exercises recommended by her diagnosing physician, and during that time experienced stability and no progression (many of those exercises were torso strengthening exercises).

                              Then, she began a journey which included work on psoas muscles, traction, osteopathic adjustments, and counseling at a time of intense pain (these seem to be the things that created major change for her as I see it after two readings of her work). She does have three curves as it turns out - one being cervical, which she is now working on - or began working on in 2002 as I understand it.

                              I've thought of writing her and asking if she had wedging and such. Bone (from the literature) is a living thing which can reshape, even in adulthood - albeit at a much slower rate than when we are young.

                              How nice it would be to get to a point where something like the MedX machine would hold improvements with 15 minutes 2-3 times a week. Yep, I know how to dream :-)
                              Last edited by mamamax; 01-08-2010, 05:51 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by mamamax View Post
                                It does seem that way - and then there is Martha, whose curves were quite stiff and her deformity rigid.
                                What is the evidence for this?
                                Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                                No island of sanity.

                                Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                                Answer: Medicine


                                "We are all African."

                                Comment

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