Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Clear - 63* -> 15* in a month?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    This video is completely bogus. Her posture in the beginning is not consistent with structural scoliosis of 60 degrees. I agree this is not structural scoliosis. Her comment that "Stanford had no idea what this was" tells you it's not ordinary scoliosis. I also think she is having a little too much fun in her vibrating chair.

    Shame on whatever practitioner has produced and posted this video. Even if Schroth is legit, this certainly does nothing to help it's reputation.
    Last edited by leahdragonfly; 01-03-2010, 07:02 PM.
    Gayle, age 50
    Oct 2010 fusion T8-sacrum w/ pelvic fixation
    Feb 2012 lumbar revision for broken rods @ L2-3-4
    Sept 2015 major lumbar A/P revision for broken rods @ L5-S1


    mom of Leah, 15 y/o, Diagnosed '08 with 26* T JIS (age 6)
    2010 VBS Dr Luhmann Shriners St Louis
    2017 curves stable/skeletely mature

    also mom of Torrey, 12 y/o son, 16* T, stable

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by leahdragonfly View Post
      This video is completely bogus. Her posture in the beginning is not consistent with structural scoliosis of 60 degrees. I agree this is not structural scoliosis. Her comment that "Stanford had no idea what this was" tells you it's not ordinary scoliosis. I also think she is having a little too much fun in her vibrating chair.

      Shame on whatever practitioner has produced and posted this video. Even if Schroth is legit, this certainly does nothing to help it's reputation.
      No it is NOT Schroth. It is a Clear chiro outfit in San Jose, CA.

      And yes they should make it crystal CLEAR that this is NOT structural like 99.99999999999999% of the cases out there.

      ETA: Yeah my kids had a 57* and 58* curve and didn't look anything like this child, not even the one that had little rotation as this child has.
      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

      No island of sanity.

      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
      Answer: Medicine


      "We are all African."

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
        I think the point is that it's NOT a structural curve.
        Is that usual, though, to only find out that it's not structural on the operating table? Wouldn't a bending xray reveal it before that?

        Comment


        • #19
          curious???

          I have heard that single curves are easier to correct using CLEAR techniques then "s" or triple curves.

          I'd like to know how fast the curve came upon her...I feel like it was a fast mover..there is no way she would have wanted to dance nor could have danced with that curve.

          I would love to hear a neurologists take on the obvious neurological issues she exhibited in the "walking the line" portion of the video...

          I've NEVER seen such a drastic drop on a curve using CLEAR....I've seen drops,but not of this magnitude...it does sound like she worked like crazy to get the reduction.

          I felt the neurological component of her curve very noteworthy and I do wish SOMEONE would start digging into that neuro. link ......

          Comment


          • #20
            Dr. Hu's patient did not straighten out in forward bending and bending films.
            Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
            Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

            Comment


            • #21
              Hysterical Scoliosis

              Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
              I've sent another message to Dr. Hu.

              According to Moe's Textbook of Scoliosis and Other Spinal Deformities, in the chapter on Hysterical Scoliosis:

              "Hysterical scoliosis is a diagnosis of exclusion characterized by a scoliosis with trunk imbalance, the lack of abnormal neurologic or other physical findings, and radiographs demostrating a broad curvature without rotation. The curve resolves in the supine position, and radiographic documentation of that fact is necessary."

              There are accompanying photos that show a woman from the back with very obvious trunk assymetry. A second photo shows a flat back when the patient is bent forward. A third photo shows an xray fairly similar to that of Kaylee's (no obvious sign of rotation).
              Thank you Linda - I would think Dr. Hu may have a very unusual patient and one she may wish to document.

              I came across an article in Musculoskeletal Radiology (University of Washington); in this article Hysterical Scoliosis is classified as "Transient Structural Scoliosis". http://www.rad.washington.edu/academ...book/scoliosis

              The only other references I find are:
              • Blount Walter P, Waldram David W, Dicus William T 1974 J Bone Jt Surg 1766. The Diagnosis of 'Hysterical' Scoliosis. Here's some interesting discussion regarding their work:

              In three patients with pre-existing small structural thoracic scoliosis in whom a new lumbar curve, decompensation, or a limp developed as a manifestation of a conversion neurosis, the curves responded to treatment with a Milwaukee brace and exercises.These curves are difficult to differentiate from structural myogenic curvatures which are always associated with pain and with muscle tightness that does not disappear with suggestion.
              • Ogilvie James W 1995. Moe's Textbook 3rd Ed, Lonstein Winter Bradford Ogilvie eds. 505-506 Hysterical scoliosis
              • Lonstein JE 1996 Scoliosis pp 625-683 in Lovell and Winter's Pediatric Orthopedics, Fourth Edition, ed RT Morrissy and SL Weinstein, Lippincott-Raven Publishers, Philadelphia.
              • Scoliosis & the Human Spine (Hawes): Some children and adolescents develop so-called 'hysterical' scoliosis in association with psychological factors (Blount et al. 1974, Ogilvie 1995e). Hysterical scoliosis clinically may be indistinguishable in appearance from other cases, and it is not uncommon for the diagnosis to be applied incorrectly, for example, in curvatures that develop in response to bone tumors (Bradford and Bueff 1995). The Cobb angle of hysterical scoliosis can be mild to moderately severe (Lonstein 1996, Ogilvie 1995e). Yet, as with any functional scoliosis, the curvature straightens in response to bending sideways. In fact, several surgeons found that 'when there was good rapport, it was possible to eliminate the deformity completely or almost completely by suggestion and gentle manipulation' (Blount et al. 1974). Like in a leg length-associated spinal curvature, the spinal segments have normal flexibility and resume their natural configuration when the body is relaxed. One case of hysterical scoliosis reportedly disappeared after three years of psychiatric treatment (Lonstein 1996).


              If anyone has the full text article by Lonstein, I'd be interested in reading that.

              Comment


              • #22
                bogus??

                I don't know if we can say for sure it is bogus..

                .....postural/structural??

                I do think it is an unusual situation....if that is her before and after xray...more power to her....I'd like to see what happens as she grows..and once she stops therapy..there is an obvious neuro. issue that I would think would always be present??? How can that be overcome???

                Comment


                • #23
                  funky x-rays

                  At 3.51, her illiac crest heights in the before x-ray are way off. Almost as if she was standing on a 3 inch lift with her left foot. If you look at the perpendicularity of the lower spine in relation to her illiac crest heights, it looks pretty good.

                  If you stood on your left foot, and shifted your hips to the left, the end result would look like her before x-ray.

                  Why do her illiac crest heights in the after x-ray look so good? What changed in her pelvis????
                  Ed
                  49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
                  Pre surgery curves T70,L70
                  ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
                  Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

                  Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
                  http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

                  My x-rays
                  http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

                  http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mamamax View Post
                    From the one reference...

                    "In fact, several surgeons found that when there was good rapport, it was possible to eliminate the deformity completely or almost completely by suggestion and gentle manipulation' (Blount et al. 1974). (Lonstein 1996)."
                    This is how the chiros apparently straightened the curve.
                    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                    No island of sanity.

                    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                    Answer: Medicine


                    "We are all African."

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by titaniumed View Post
                      At 3.51, her illiac crest heights in the before x-ray are way off. Almost as if she was standing on a 3 inch lift with her left foot. If you look at the perpendicularity of the lower spine in relation to her illiac crest heights, it looks pretty good.

                      If you stood on your left foot, and shifted your hips to the left, the end result would look like her before x-ray.

                      Why do her illiac crest heights in the after x-ray look so good? What changed in her pelvis????
                      Ed
                      She climbed down off the ledge and became less hysterical.
                      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                      No island of sanity.

                      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                      Answer: Medicine


                      "We are all African."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Post of the month?

                        I believe you just hit the pinnacle of the pyramid of comedy. LOL
                        Ed
                        49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
                        Pre surgery curves T70,L70
                        ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
                        Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

                        Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
                        http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

                        My x-rays
                        http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

                        http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by titaniumed View Post
                          I believe you just hit the pinnacle of the pyramid of comedy. LOL
                          Ed
                          No Ti Ed. You retired the comedy pyramid award.
                          Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                          No island of sanity.

                          Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                          Answer: Medicine


                          "We are all African."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Some overdue comedy

                            Ive been saving this clip from the movie "Napoleon dynamite" which shows the time machine that uncle Rico buys online. It kinda reminds me of the old electrostim machines years ago.

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpyT4pc_0ak

                            Ed
                            49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
                            Pre surgery curves T70,L70
                            ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
                            Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

                            Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
                            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

                            My x-rays
                            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

                            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              That is arguably one of the funniest movies ever made in my opinion.

                              A New Yorker reviewer said that "This is Spinal Tap" is arguably the funniest movie ever made.

                              I say any and all of the mockumentaries are arguably the funniest movies ever made.
                              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                              No island of sanity.

                              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                              Answer: Medicine


                              "We are all African."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Napoleon D. is one of my favorites too. I love Kips expression as he's inducing the shock. It was sheer genius to produce this movie.

                                About the video, I hate to make judgments against kids, but it looks bogus to me. I tried and did imitate her walk (i'm kind of weird like that). I remember when I was looking at Clear's website several years back, there was another "miracle" cure and the girl happened to have a very similar curve.

                                Can a true structural curve be a single long curve from top to bottom? I've never seen it except in these 2 instances.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X