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Thread: Clear - 63* -> 15* in a month?

  1. #1
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    Clear - 63* -> 15* in a month?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EXx-4wtm9A

    A member here posted this on Fix's site asking what is up.

    Comments?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
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    "We are all African."

  2. #2
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    Very suspicious that they don't have her doing an Adams Forward Bending Test or show bending films prior to treatment. I suspect that this is a functional scoliosis. I've emailed a few surgeons to see if someone is willing to comment.

    --Linda

  3. #3
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    I agree it can't be structural. Someone who knows what the hell they are looking at should look for wedging on the radiograph.

    My guess is that she is hyper-hypermobile, basically a contortionist, and can place her body in that configuration at will.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #4
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    Also, I would have guessed she had a much larger Cobb angle than 63* from the initial shots of her walking and skipping. I thought she had at least a 100* curve based on that.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #5
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    Here is the scoliosis page for the chiro's web site...

    http://www.janzenandjanzen.com/scoli..._san_jose.html

    I notice they have FAR less stellar examples on the web page for some reason. I think Linda is correct that the girl in the video does not have a structural scoliosis or they would have put her case on the front page. In fact if that was the usual result they could drop everything else and have every scoliosis patient in the world waiting at their door. We don't observe that though.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #6
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    Yeah, that all looks very odd to me. She likely has some neurological thing causing the curve.

    Pooka, do you feel like writing to them and getting some clarification?

  7. #7
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    Hi...

    Dr. Serena Hu (UCSF) responded to my email, and tells of a patient who had a very similar story. They did a complete neuro workup and found nothing. She was reluctant to perform surgery, as the patient had a long curve (just like Kaylee), and it meant fusion from the neck to the sacrum. When they had anesthesized her for surgery, and began preparing her back, they found she had a completely straight spine. So, if the patients are indeed the same, Dr. Jantzen did, in fact, help Kaylee. It just wasn't nearly as miraculous as it seems.

    And, if one follows the logic, Dr. Hu would be even more of a miracle worker than Dr. Jantzen, as she didn't even have to touch her patient's back! ;-)

    --Linda

  8. #8
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    Well . . . that's odd. Did the bending xrays show a structural curve? And did the patient still have the curve on standing after surgery?

    I'd been arguing that large curves never just reversed. This (if a structural curve) would seem to suggest that they do.

    All very odd.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine View Post
    Hi...

    Dr. Serena Hu (UCSF) responded to my email, and tells of a patient who had a very similar story. They did a complete neuro workup and found nothing. She was reluctant to perform surgery, as the patient had a long curve (just like Kaylee), and it meant fusion from the neck to the sacrum. When they had anesthesized her for surgery, and began preparing her back, they found she had a completely straight spine. So, if the patients are indeed the same, Dr. Jantzen did, in fact, help Kaylee. It just wasn't nearly as miraculous as it seems.

    --Linda
    Linda - could you ask Dr. Hu if this would be typical of the little researched "hysterical" scoliosis? It sounds like it. There are no screening techniques that can diagnose it - yet, when the patient is made to feel "safe" (mechanically, so to speak, in this case with anesthesia), even a previously diagnosed structural curve - will straighten. Just curious what her take may be on that. There is very little research/documentation regarding these cases - she may have come across one.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Well . . . that's odd. Did the bending xrays show a structural curve? And did the patient still have the curve on standing after surgery?

    I'd been arguing that large curves never just reversed. This (if a structural curve) would seem to suggest that they do.

    All very odd.
    I think the point is that it's NOT a structural curve.

  11. #11
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    "Hysterical scoliosis."

    That's probably another way of saying "non-structural" scoliosis or "contortionist."
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    "Hysterical scoliosis."

    That's probably another way of saying "non-structural" scoliosis or "contortionist."
    Actually - no it isn't. While the research and documentation is near nill .. there have been cases where previously diagnosed structural curves straighten. And yes, is quite odd.

  13. #13
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    I've sent another message to Dr. Hu.

    According to Moe's Textbook of Scoliosis and Other Spinal Deformities, in the chapter on Hysterical Scoliosis:

    "Hysterical scoliosis is a diagnosis of exclusion characterized by a scoliosis with trunk imbalance, the lack of abnormal neurologic or other physical findings, and radiographs demostrating a broad curvature without rotation. The curve resolves in the supine position, and radiographic documentation of that fact is necessary."

    There are accompanying photos that show a woman from the back with very obvious trunk assymetry. A second photo shows a flat back when the patient is bent forward. A third photo shows an xray fairly similar to that of Kaylee's (no obvious sign of rotation).

  14. #14
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    http://orthosurg.ucsf.edu/patient-ca...scoliosis.html

    Postural Scoliosis Also known as "hysterical scoliosis," postural scoliosis may be a result of pain, as a patient tilts to relieve the pain. It can be reversed by relieving the pain or by having the patient lie flat. X-rays don't show any abnormality of the vertebrae.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #15
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    So it seems the child has postural scoliosis, not structural, as far as we can tell.

    There is a reason that chiro site hasn't plastered her case all over their web pages.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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