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Thread: Conflict

  1. #31
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    Well I'm coming to think the issue is my inexperience with moderated fora.

    I have the experience of unmoderated fora with the inmates keeping the discussion on track in ways left to their discretion. And you might think there is a lot of swearing but I assure you there is almost none. I can't count all the things I have learned on these type of fora. The signal to noise ratio is usually high, at least in the groups I frequent. In general, I would characterize the signal to noise ratio for moderated fora as lower because the signal is low, not because the noise is high.

    People migrate to moderated fora for a reason. Unfortunately that reason is not the same reason people post on unmoderated fora. Having seen the success of unmoderated fora, I have trouble seeing how moderating ones can possibly succeed in the same way to the same degree.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  2. #32
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    To avoid copying and pasting again from over there, can we look at this post:

    http://www.scoliosis-support.org/sho...7&postcount=45

    (and the post before it, which is also very uncivil and which I suspect set the tone for your response. That is, I don't believe you started the uncivil tone here.)

    What's striking about it is what you're *not* saying - i.e, anything at all to do with the study at hand. This is a post solely about the other poster - the thing that I'm calling gossip. It does nothing whatsoever to advance *the ideas being talked about* It is meant solely to discredit the other poster's opinion. Again, in science the way we discredit is by going back to the facts of the study itself. "You're a big fat poo-poo head" is *not* reasoned scientific discussion, and is also considered uncivil.

    Contrast it with this post

    http://www.scoliosis-support.org/sho...7&postcount=42

    which directly engages the facts, is interesting, advances the discussion, and gets a big shiny gold star from me.

    As a moderator, you could go through removing all posts of the first type and it would not take away anything interesting or relevant. In fact, it would make it so much easier to get to the really great posts of the second type.

  3. #33
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    I moderated, and even I don't like alot of moderation in my forums. And I've also had the experience (as a participant) of talking exactly the way I'm talking now and being booted out because the *content* of my discussion was considered dangerous. So, I do see the problem.

    The best moderation, always, is self-control, humility, and curiosity on the part of the participants, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Well I'm coming to think the issue is my inexperience with moderated fora.

    I have the experience of unmoderated fora with the inmates keeping the discussion on track in ways left to their discretion. And you might think there is a lot of swearing but I assure you there is almost none. I can't count all the things I have learned on these type of fora. The signal to noise ratio is usually high, at least in the groups I frequent. In general, I would characterize the signal to noise ratio for moderated fora as lower because the signal is low, not because the noise is high.

    People migrate to moderated fora for a reason. Unfortunately that reason is not the same reason people post on unmoderated fora. Having seen the success of unmoderated fora, I have trouble seeing how moderating ones can possibly succeed in the same way to the same degree.

  4. #34
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    The best moderation, always, is self-control, humility, and curiosity on the part of the participants, IMO.
    I agree with that.

    I, too, was booted of a moderated forum relatively recently for openly challenging the moderation as far as I can tell.

    I started a thread (in the appropriate section) questioning the booting off of an expert. This was not the first expert to be booted off and I wanted to point out that one inmate at least doesn't agree. That thread was removed summarily and so I started another thread asking why the first thread was deleted. That was deleted and I started a third thread on the deletions of the previous two. That was deleted.

    Soon after, I was booted for a form infraction that some other inmates publicly questioned as being the real reason. It was too minor and certainly not "special." It wasn't the real reason in my opinion. The real reason was the three deleted threads.

    I can stomach a certain mass of moderation but anything along the lines of cutting off your nose to spite you face will eventually get me booted off for pointing out. You would be well into the thousands of dollars to get the advice one-on-one that these experts were freely giving out. It's shameful how they were treated especially since I would not say they were uncivil. But I think we have established i have a higher incivility threshold than most.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 12-26-2009 at 06:19 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    And I've also had the experience (as a participant) of talking exactly the way I'm talking now and being booted out because the *content* of my discussion was considered dangerous.
    Okay that takes the cake. It handily beats all my moderation complaints.

    It's impossible to know what people are thinking.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Okay that takes the cake. It handily beats all my moderation complaints.

    It's impossible to know what people are thinking.
    Oh, I have a better one (I've spent *alot* of time posting online).

    In one forum, there was a mass uprising to boot me off (but I was eventually allowed to stay after the moderator quelled the uprising) because, and I quote, "your posts are too intellectual and they're hurting our heads."

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Oh, I have a better one (I've spent *alot* of time posting online).

    In one forum, there was a mass uprising to boot me off (but I was eventually allowed to stay after the moderator quelled the uprising) because, and I quote, "your posts are too intellectual and they're hurting our heads."
    I genuflect in your general direction.

    You are my hero.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #38
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    I think anytime there is more than one group under the same roof, that there will always be conflict of some kind. The thing is, here at NSF and SSO, we are all looking for the same thing - relief - albeit, the definition of relief/treatment may often vary among us. For certain though, none of us is an above anybody else expert in the treatment of scoliosis. How any one person can think themselves "factual" - and anyone who disagrees with them as automatically "counter-factual" can be truthfully seen as nothing more than a subjective interpretation perhaps born of a spirit to debate regardless of any yet to be identified "facts", or the feelings of others. A tone, and subjective interpretation that may not necessarily be appropriate among a group of adults looking for a place where they can share collective experience towards collective goals.

    I find both support groups informative and comforting. I must say however, that here - the propensity for calling another a shill (fraud and/or liar), either through outright comment or innuendo, has in the past - occurred often and that such behavior has oftentimes been misplaced. And yes such is unsettling and at times downright offensive. I know because I have been on the receiving end. With time, and patience I find NSF far more comforting than when I first joined. This has taken a lot of work not only on my part - but the part of others as well. And I'm grateful for the progress that has been made (not just for myself, but also for others).

    Because we never truly know who we are talking to (or who is watching us talk), it just seems prudent to exercise some diplomacy before launching a jolting offensive against another. And truthfully, what benefit is there in launching an attack on another simply because their viewpoint appears different? If someone truly is a liar and/or shill, or even just misguided - there are ways to handle this without overly colorful, jolting and/or verbal assassination. Exceptions to that may belong in a chat room - but not the kind of forum like NSF or SSO where we find adults with some serious dilemmas looking for serious answers vs frivolous off topic flaming and/or condemnation.

    Just my two cents.

    To those who have offered condolences to me here in forum and in private messages, concerning the passing of my father - Thank you. Regardless of how we agree, or disagree - we are like a family, and your thoughts bring some much needed comfort during this difficult time.

    It occurs to me that we are all going through difficult times (with a difficult condition) and maybe, it would be best to be mindful of this and conduct ourselves accordingly? We'll never be perfect - we are human after all, but maybe such a guideline would make our days less - conflicted.

  9. #39
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    conflict

    I think the Torso Rotation debate is fairly representative of the conflicts that bubble up on this board.

    Here it is in a nutshell

    Point:
    Credible scientists have published studies that suggest that approximately 20 minutes of torso rotation strength training per week can halt progression or regress curvature in nearly all children with small and medium sized curves.

    Counterpoint:
    It may be effective in the short term but where are the large, longterm studies?

    The reality is that this board is for discussing concepts that may by supported by the latest science but AREN'T fully understood. If 10 or 20 year studies on torso rotation were available doctors would be handing out pamphlets on it.
    Last edited by Dingo; 12-26-2009 at 10:40 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    And I've also had the experience (as a participant) of talking exactly the way I'm talking now and being booted out because the *content* of my discussion was considered dangerous.
    I'm sorry but I just can't get over this... a substance comment that actually dared to speak its name. This is a very rare bird in my opinion.

    Remarkable. Uncanny. Among adults. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  11. #41
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    Sorry, my miscommunication. No, they didn't say "your posts are too dangerous." What they said is that I could no longer participate in the forum because of my opinions, and not because of the way in which I stated them.

    The "too dangerous" is my take on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    I'm sorry but I just can't get over this... a substance comment that actually dared to speak its name. This is a very rare bird in my opinion.

    Remarkable. Uncanny. Among adults. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction.

  12. #42
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    What came to my mind were the McCarthy hearings and other cases of attempted totalitarianism in public.

    The hope of course is that unless you are ex-CIA revealing secrets or anyone yelling "fire" in a theater or something like that, then everything else is fair game.

    Not everyone agrees but they are usually careful not to do it in public where they will lose credibility.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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