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The Curious Case of Martha Hawes

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  • #16
    Hi hdugger
    may santa bring you all the evidence you need!

    merry jingle

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by hdugger
      Four data points related so far, all four credited to exercise and (maybe) massage: ...
      I don't know if you'll find this noteworthy, but I've yet to see any collective group of massage therapists claim they can effect curvature ... and believe me when I say if they could, they *would*.

      Pam
      Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
      AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


      41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
      Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
      Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


      VIEW MY X-RAYS
      EMAIL ME

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      • #18
        Originally posted by hdugger
        That is interesting. I would be surprised if massage on its own were effective, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if you had to use massage to relax the tightened muscles on one side of the curve and then use exercise to strengthen the weak muscles on the other side. Intellectually it makes sense, although I have no idea if it would work.
        That was in response to your post - LOL! Personally, I don't think it has the ability to effect curvature - nor will you ever hear me say that.

        Pain relief is a whole 'nuther issue ...
        Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
        AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


        41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
        Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
        Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


        VIEW MY X-RAYS
        EMAIL ME

        Comment


        • #19
          SEAS &amp; Adult Curve Reduction

          Originally posted by hdugger
          Here's the link to the adult case in the SEAS study:

          http://www.scoliosisjournal.com/content/3/1/20
          A few months back I wrote the first author on the paper "Adult scoliosis can be reduced through specific SEAS exercises: a case report", received a nice reply and the following web link for information and full reports: http://www.isico.it/approach/default.htm

          The Textbook
          THE EVIDENCE BASED ISICO APPROACH TO SPINAL DEFORMITIES
          http://www.isico.it/approach/summary.htm

          With the publication of Martha's follow up, this becomes ever more interesting to me - maybe interesting to some others also.

          Email address for the authors if anyone has further questions is also within the above web page.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by mamamax View Post
            be interesting to some others also.

            Email address for the authors if anyone has further questions is also within the above web page.
            If someone is emailing, can you ask:

            1. was this patient part of a study wherein she was the only one who saw a reduction?

            2. how many people over the years and in formal study situations have tried this therapy and failed to see a reduction?
            Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

            No island of sanity.

            Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
            Answer: Medicine


            "We are all African."

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by hdugger
              Hi Pooka,

              Although I wrote asking them that, the reason I'm not pressing on this is because I don't think that reduction is actually the main role for exercise. I think the main role is in stopping/slowing progression. But, since we've seen that studies proving a stop to progression are (apparently) impossible for doctors to cleanly design, I'm looking at the occasional reduction as the tip of the "exercise that possibly halts progression" iceberg.

              So, if this exercise reduces one woman's curve, to me that means that it might halt ten others. I realize there's no solid scientific evidence that one indicates the other, but I think there's reason to suspect that it's so.
              That's seems reasonable to me, a bunny, but I'd like to hear what a surgeon would say.

              I agree the halting/slowing of progression is never going to be shown outside of a very long term study, at least 20 years I think which is the time Pam's curve held on its own at ~50* as a teenager (and may have held there indefinitely absent her fusion). I question the chances of getting any meaningful sized study group to exercise for at least 20 years without fail. I predict it will never been shown. And when we have not only Pam but another person in this little sandbox (who I'm not remembering at the moment) who had a similar trajectory (though not 20 years) then we can't assume it is all that rare even at that degree and even in a teenager.
              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

              No island of sanity.

              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
              Answer: Medicine


              "We are all African."

              Comment


              • #22
                Continued Reduction (2001-2005)

                I was comparing the initial reports from Martha Hawes against the most recent publication.

                The attached xray gives us information up to 2001, the information from 2009 is in the second table attached.

                What we see now is more than stabilization of reduced curvature (with one hour of exercise daily), we also see continued reduction since 2001

                A notable observation I think. Previous to the 2009 publication we were all talking about her maintaining the 2001 reduction with one hour of exercise daily. With this new publication, we see the reduction continues.






                2001 Reference
                http://www.scoliosis.org/resources/s...on_spr2002.pdf

                2005 Reference (published in 2009):
                http://www.scoliosisjournal.com/cont...-7161-4-27.pdf
                Last edited by mamamax; 12-19-2009, 03:56 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Confused and new here

                  This repore was the only thing I could find that is anything lke what is going on with me and I want to know if anyone has has heard of anything else like it or may have a clue as to why. At 17 I was told I have scoliosis. An S curve at 26 and 24 degrees. I am 29 now and just had new Xrays done for the first time since then I was told I now have a C curve at 15 degrees. I have had NO treatment at all! No brace, surgry, PT, anything! In fact I avoided the doctor as much as possable. I did not think it was possable for a scoliosis curve to change from an S curve to a C curve and improve all on its own durring adulthood. Am I wrong or does anyone know ware to point me for ansewrs?
                  Linda J.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I am glad to see you have found success in your adult treatment of scoliosis.

                    I find it rewarding to hear your story, to say that surgery is not the only option but that some do have success with exercise and bracing...is hopeful.

                    please note: for those who did have surgery, do not judge your scoliosis with hers...for I believe scoliosis may vary with each individual and what works for one may not work for others.

                    I would highly recommend exercise as the first step in care....

                    since dx, Amb continues to exercise, some yoga, scoliosis specific exercises for her curve, and swimming, she also plays the trumpet and works on diaphragm and lung capacity.

                    ** We have not been on here for awhile...we started her pump therapy for diabetes.
                    The more we use the pump the more I realize a brace is not really an option for us...so I am hoping and praying for a small miracle..planting my mustard seed. I pray she stays the same or improves...honestly the diabetes is enough of a burden
                    age 15
                    Daughter diagnosed at age 13
                    T20 l23 10-09
                    T27 L27 1/2010

                    T10 L 20 in brace 4/2010
                    T22 L25 12/2010 out of brace
                    T24 L25 7/2011 out of brace

                    Type 1 diabetes- pumping
                    Wearing a Boston brace and Schroth therapy
                    Faith, Hope, and Love- the greatest of these is Love

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by brokenwings25 View Post
                      This repore was the only thing I could find that is anything lke what is going on with me and I want to know if anyone has has heard of anything else like it or may have a clue as to why. At 17 I was told I have scoliosis. An S curve at 26 and 24 degrees. I am 29 now and just had new Xrays done for the first time since then I was told I now have a C curve at 15 degrees. I have had NO treatment at all! No brace, surgry, PT, anything! In fact I avoided the doctor as much as possable. I did not think it was possable for a scoliosis curve to change from an S curve to a C curve and improve all on its own durring adulthood. Am I wrong or does anyone know ware to point me for ansewrs?
                      Linda J.
                      Hi Linda - I missed your posting earlier - wow. I would like to know more about your story. I just finished reading Martha's memoir (Unwinding) last evening, for the second time. After the SOSORT presentation that she made in Athens, Greece, an eminent British scoliosis research scientist (who remains unnamed) said to her: We need to know how many other Martha's are out there.

                      We know spontaneous resolution can occur in children, and there is literature to document that - but as far as adults, there is (to my knowledge) no documentation. Martha's case is actually the first scientifically documented case of adult reversal, and she has used many different methods. In your case - you have not done anything intentionally to produce this surprising result. As for answers to that - man, I sure don't have any. You may want to drop Martha a line - as she has done exhaustive research of the literature, and no doubt spoken with countless others over the last fifteen years, if anyone knows anything about this happening in other adults, I'm guessing it would be her. I'm hoping you have past xrays and that you can document what has happened.

                      Even if you can't document what has happened - I think your story indicates that there may indeed be other Martha's out there. And while you have not intentionally done anything to produce what has happened, I'm curious as to what your lifestyle may have been like over the years to possibly contribute to your result (in a way you may not be aware of). For example, there are anecdotal reports of those who practice belly dancing, discovering improvement in their scoliosis (an unintentional byproduct).

                      Thanks for your posting and I hope you will share more - there may indeed be other Martha's out there.
                      Last edited by mamamax; 12-28-2009, 05:54 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        avoiding surgery

                        Hi all. I have been trying to avoid surgery since I was diagnosed at age 11 and wore a brace until about age 16. I am now 57. Since I have had no pain I have not paid much attention to my scoliosis; I married at 19, had two boys and the scoliosis never bothered my husband.

                        I did yoga for years and I suppose it delayed the progression, as well as kept me fit. In 2007, when I stopped the yoga, I began to feel changes. Again, trying to do anything to avoid surgery, I went to Clear Institute in Minnesota which I believe sped up the progression (I wrote about this elsewhere on the forum). When I went to Clear my scoliosis was 83 degrees. When I left two weeks later, Dr. Woggon said his x-ray read 63 degrees. This was after an intense regimen of stretching and adjustments.

                        Now I am at 90 degrees, increased kyphosis to the right side with 50% reduced lung capacity and have resigned myself to surgery in June. I have been blessedly pain free, although now I get out of breath more easily. In some ways I am glad that I waited since there were so many problems with the Harrington rod.

                        I have read about people who have been helped by the Clear method as well. But I suppose my experience has taught me that perhaps having surgery earlier is better since it probably preserves the shape of the torso and decreases the likelihood of lung problems. I recently heard about an older woman who died from complications from advanced scoliosis. Good luck to all and best wishes for a wonderful new year. Joy

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Hi Joy - the truth certainly is that we never know for certain what the future may bring. While I'm confident in the non surgical treatment I'm receiving and hope to avoid surgery - I am mindful that there are never any guarantees (surgical or non surgical). If I were to require surgery in the future, I would consider consulting with one of our newest members, an SRS surgeon Dr. Anand (scoliosisdoctor).

                          His website: http://www.infospine.net/index.html

                          Patient testimonial #5 (a woman in her 70's): http://www.infospine.net/patient-tes...ngeles-ca.html
                          Last edited by mamamax; 12-28-2009, 07:55 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I got a seccond opinion

                            After My doctor told me my curves had gotten damaticly better with no treatment, as much as I liked the news, I thought it would be best to get a seccond opinion. This new doctor is starting me on PT 3x a week to get my muscles back to where they were and has ordered all my reccords from my old doctor along with the x-ray summary from the imaging center. She said there was definatly an S curve and did not look too bad but she did not want to say any more without all my reccords. I was asked that I did that may have helped. Well I don't sit down. Ever. I stay active and moveing even when I can't stand the pain. I also stretch and did excercizes to keep my back muscles as strong as I could. I coached my son's soccer team ful of 4, 5, and 6 yearolds for 2 years and I do a lot of house work. I have gotten away from all of that latly and am not in as good of shape as I was 6 months agobut the PT will help. I hope the other doctor was right and it has improved.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Just curious... did a board certified orthopedic surgeon who does spine tell you you have a C curve of 15 degrees or was it a chiro?

                              Also, was the second opinion saying you still have a S curve a board certified orthopedic surgeon who does spine?
                              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                              No island of sanity.

                              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                              Answer: Medicine


                              "We are all African."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by brokenwings25 View Post
                                After My doctor told me my curves had gotten damaticly better with no treatment, as much as I liked the news, I thought it would be best to get a seccond opinion. This new doctor is starting me on PT 3x a week to get my muscles back to where they were and has ordered all my reccords from my old doctor along with the x-ray summary from the imaging center. She said there was definatly an S curve and did not look too bad but she did not want to say any more without all my reccords. I was asked that I did that may have helped. Well I don't sit down. Ever. I stay active and moveing even when I can't stand the pain. I also stretch and did excercizes to keep my back muscles as strong as I could. I coached my son's soccer team ful of 4, 5, and 6 yearolds for 2 years and I do a lot of house work. I have gotten away from all of that latly and am not in as good of shape as I was 6 months agobut the PT will help. I hope the other doctor was right and it has improved.
                                Beautiful experience Linda - thank you for sharing. Hope you will keep us posted. Kind of looks like your doctor is not a chiropractor (though it doesn't make a lot of difference to me, I believe they are capable of identifying curvature patterns - mine even measures using the same method as my Orthopedic specialist) - noted you were referred to PT, and I don't think chiropractors do that ;-)

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