Interesting Office Visit & Present for Sharon

[mamamax]

Mamamax,

Could you explain what is is about your ±52 curve that would require (possibly) 3 surgeries, and what would you - or your doctor - qualify as "A LOT of thoracolumbar rotation"?

I don't think I'm a rarity when I say of all the pain management doctors I've seen (over all the years), I've never had one who attempted to measure my Cobb. It just isn't within their scope. I wish I could convey to you - without twisting your knickers further than they already are - just how alarming what you said you were told by this doctor comes across to some of us.

Why would surgery on a relatively small curve put you in a wheelchair (according to your "beautiful Egyptian")? How exactly were your issues "that come with being well seasoned - degenerative disc disease, some arthritis and a few other things I don't know how to spell" diagnosed?

Regardless of how you perceive my intentions here, I'm concerned you aren't getting proper care, and I'm worried it doesn't seem to bother you.

Don't you find a diagnosis of a "really really really bad back" concerning?

That isn't "lay", Maxene ... that's a pat on the head.

Regards,
Pam

Pam ~

Where to begin - guess it would be best to start by ignoring the comments about twisted nickers. First of all, I've already indicated I cannot give an answer to your satisfaction (up thread) but you can be certain I'll press for all the gory details (and write them all down) next visit.

Why you are concerned that I am not receiving proper treatment is curious to me - seems this opinion is based upon the fact that you, who are not a doctor, do not agree with one who is, and has been treating me over a long period of time.

And I don't know why my diagnosis should be so alarming to anyone. I believe its a known fact that surgery is not the always and completely best answer for everyone - this doctor for one thing, has noticed a significant improvement in quality of life over the last year. The beautiful Egyptian (and he really is) tracks my spine yearly, and yes measures the cobb angles - looking for dreaded progression. What is the problem with this?

If you read my previous post, where I discuss our doctor/patient relationship ... no - the really, really, really, bad back comment does not concern me at all. Now, if this comment were made on an initial first visit, then yes it may bother me - but not in context of a very good relationship that has been established over the course of time.

[txmarinemom]

Pam ~

Where to begin - guess it would be best to start by ignoring the comments about twisted nickers. First of all, I've already indicated I cannot give an answer to your satisfaction (up thread) but you can be certain I'll press for all the gory details (and write them all down) next visit.

Why you are concerned that I am not receiving proper treatment is curious to me - seems this opinion is based upon the fact that you, who are not a doctor, do not agree with one who is, and has been treating me over a long period of time.

And I don't know why my diagnosis should be so alarming to anyone. I believe its a known fact that surgery is not the always and completely best answer for everyone - this doctor for one thing, has noticed a significant improvement in quality of life over the last year. The beautiful Egyptian (and he really is) tracks my spine yearly, and yes measures the cobb angles - looking for dreaded progression. What is the problem with this?

If you read my previous post, where I discuss our doctor/patient relationship ... no - the really, really, really, bad back comment does not concern me at all. Now, if this comment were made on an initial first visit, then yes it may bother me - but not in context of a very good relationship that has been established over the course of time.

Nevermind, Maxene ... still no data to fill in the glaring holes. I guess I really AM silly to request factual feedback - even when you bring up said visit, and put it in the context of something substantial.

Same old.

Good luck to you.

[mariaf]

Those on the "in" side become brave and hyper aggressive (witness txmarinemom's post in this thread - this post would only be written by someone who is fairly sure the moderator agrees with her).

I've known Pam for a while now - and I have to say this post made me laugh out loud. I mean no disrespect to anyone but if you knew Pam, you'd know that the LAST thing she cares about, when stating her opinion, is whether or not the other person agrees with her.

We've had our differences of opinion as well - and it's always been something I've respected most about her - she will tell me what HER honest thoughts and opinions are, not what she thinks I want to hear or what I will agree with.

[mamamax]

Nevermind, Maxene ... still no data to fill in the glaring holes. I guess I really AM silly to request factual feedback - even when you bring up said visit, and put it in the context of something substantial.

Same old.

Good luck to you.

If I had information, in detail - and on hand, to satisfy you Pam - I would post it. I'm not going to make a special Pam appointment to do that - I'll fill you in three months from now. No reason for the sarcastic remarks - really.

[LindaRacine]

<begin metadiscussion>

I understand that this board is run in a different way, and for a different purpose, from the Scoliosis Support board. For this reason, I've disagreed with Dingo's complaints about the moderation style on this board.

The scoliosis support forum is well-staffed and has a supportive style, which lets them step into and calm down all disputes. This board has only one moderator and a more scholarly style, so it's understandable that the moderator would only respond behind the scenes to complaints about particular posts.

However, neither form of moderation supports "calling out" members or seeming to have a dog in the fight. Maybe I have an over-sensitive ear for these things, but I found this sentence:

"I'm guessing that he's not as popular a surgeon as you've lead us to believe."

jarring from a moderator, as well as the tone of this question:

"The Pain Management visit begs the question... Why?"

If a moderator has a question about the veracity of a post, there are ways of going about checking the information without seeming to be pitted against the poster. For an example, check out how the moderators at the Scoliosis Support forum handled Dingo's abstract. They were direct, honest, and caring. They wanted to get to the truth rather then to prove a point.

When moderators cannot remain impartial (or, at least *appear* to be impartial), it tends to poison the air in a forum. Those on the "in" side become brave and hyper aggressive (witness txmarinemom's post in this thread - this post would only be written by someone who is fairly sure the moderator agrees with her). Those on the "out" side take more vieled swipes, because they're likely to be muzzled (witness the locked threads and people pussy-footing around forbidden topics).

It's OK to have a "sassy and opinionated" moderator a political forum, where people's opinions have no immediate affect on the lives around them. But, a moderator dealing with people's health and well-being really has to hold themselves to a higher standard of impartiality and compassion. Everyone else can take sides, but the moderator, by definition, cannot. Or, they can, but they can never *appear* to take sides.

<end metadiscussion>

Again, you might want to know all the facts before you trash me, but I've stopped expecting that.

Mamamax has repeatedly attributed quotes and "facts" to a specialist that she won't name. If I quote a specialist, I'm always willing to put a name to that quote. I'm guessing it would bother you if I stated "a highly regarded scoliosis specialist told me that every brace is a scam." I suspect you'd want to know the source so you could at least challenge it.

[txmarinemom]

If I had information, in detail - and on hand, to satisfy you Pam - I would post it. I'm not going to make a special Pam appointment to do that - I'll fill you in three months from now. No reason for the sarcastic remarks - really.

Yes. So the "detail" stands at "really really really bad". I get that.

And you don't find "a special Pam appointment" sarcastic? You have no perception of your own actions and words ... only what all those other meanies say to you.

Pobresita.

[mamamax]

Again, you might want to know all the facts before you trash me, but I've stopped expecting that.

Mamamax has repeatedly attributed quotes and "facts" to a specialist that she won't name. If I quote a specialist, I'm always willing to put a name to that quote. I'm guessing it would bother you if I stated "a highly regarded scoliosis specialist told me that every brace is a scam." I suspect you'd want to know the source so you could at least challenge it.

The reason I won't give you the name Linda is: you told me you wanted it so you could have a conversation with him. That is not a necessary part of my health care treatment.

The "What If" quotes do not represent anything I have ever said.

[mamamax]

Yes. So the "detail" stands at "really really really bad". I get that.

And you don't find "a special Pam appointment" sarcastic? You have no perception of your own actions and words ... only what all those other meanies say to you.

Pobresita.

I find my comment in keeping with the tone of your message.

[txmarinemom]

I find my comment in keeping with the tone of your message.

I expected nothing less from you, and would expect nothing less regardless of my response. It doesn't surprise me you persist with an unwillingness to listen. Sadly, you persist speaking bountifully (and loudly) of what you don't know.

And even what you don't know you don't know.

(I semi-plagarized the concept of ignorance of ignorance, but it is so, SO accurate)

[hdugger]

Again, you might want to know all the facts before you trash me, but I've stopped expecting that.

I'm not pursing a personal vendetta, and I'm sorry it reads that way to you. I am suggesting that there are ways that you could perform your work here that would make discussion more fruitful for the participants on the board, in my opinion. If you disagree with my suggestions but are interested in why I'm troubled by aspects of the moderation, I'd be happy to pursue that discussion. If you're simply not interested or have reasons for dismissing my concerns, I'd be happy to hear about that too. But, this particular tone - "trashing me" and "stopped expecting that" suggests some intense personal dispute between us which simply does not exist. I'm a participant on the board you moderate and I believe you could do things in a way which would better foster discussion. It's really not any more emotionally charged than that.

Your post, actually, is an example of the problem I see. Disagreements suddenly go from facts and ideas to this very personal, emotionally charged tone. It does nothing to elucidate and everything to obscure. Again, you may disagree, but I feel fairly strongly about it.

As to the facts you state, I'm not clear exactly what the specialist said that was so controversial or what detrimental effect you thought it would have on the forum. Again, the best way of dealing with such things is forthrightly - "That's a very controversial statement. I would have to talk to the specialist directly before I gave it any weight."

In your hypothetical case, I do know (or, at least I think I recall) that at least one of the polled specialists for the equipoise part of the bracing research put a "0" expection on the effectiveness of bracing, so I suspect there are SRS specialists that feel that way. Because of your role as moderator, I would expect you to provide more information. I'm not certain I would expect a participant to, though.

None of that, though, addresses my concern, which is not that you disagreed with an idea or questioned a fact, but that you kind of came at it sideways through innuendo in manner that I considered unprofessional behavior in a moderator.

[CHRIS WBS]

Pam ~
The beautiful Egyptian (and he really is) tracks my spine yearly, and yes measures the cobb angles - looking for dreaded progression.

Does he look anything like Omar Sharif? I may want to tag along on your next appointment.

[mamamax]

Does he look anything like Omar Sharif? I may want to tag along on your next appointment.

Better! Impossible not to mention :-) Consider yourself invited.