Moderate? Really??

[mamamax]

Mamamax, I am confident you can do this.

Your confidence in me (in this area) may be a bit misplaced :-)

I fear I may have spent too much time in Missouri - I'm a show me (don't tell me) kind of gal.

And while I like the links you posted, I'm more interested in doing an easy comparative analysis of the methods found here: http://www.orthosupersite.com/view.asp?rID=24348

You said you would do that if I explained how I would interpret it - which I did. Have to say, you got my hopes up!

[Pooka1]

And while I like the links you posted, I'm more interested in doing an easy comparative analysis of the methods found here: http://www.orthosupersite.com/view.asp?rID=24348

My suggestion IS an "easy comparative analysis."

That link needs a login. Can you post the material?

[Pooka1]

In terms of "show me," you can show yourself by trying this on your own radiographs. See if your measurements agree with the surgeon's measurements. Knowledge is power.

[mamamax]

My suggestion IS an "easy comparative analysis."

That link needs a login. Can you post the material?

The information on the front page (no login required there) I think, would suffice for our intended purposes here.

http://www.orthosupersite.com/view.asp?rID=24348

[Pooka1]

Nope all I get isa login screen... here is a (jumbled) copy/paste of the entire screen that will copy/paste...

-----------

Orthopedics SuperSite Orthopedics Today Orthopaedics Today International Orthopedics
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---------

The rest is just blue screen

[mamamax]

In terms of "show me," you can show yourself by trying this on your own radiographs. See if your measurements agree with the surgeon's measurements. Knowledge is power.

Dear God! (oppps, sorry) ... No - I am not going to pit my knowledge base against my surgeons' (at this point hee hee). OMG I can just see his reaction (and subsequent private notes)! But you do give me an idea - maybe I'll ask him for the easy comparative analysis ;-) Though I can hear him saying .. You should not be so concerned with these things. Too bad - I am!

[mamamax]

Nope all I get isa login screen... here is a (jumbled) copy/paste of the entire screen that will copy/paste...

-----------

Orthopedics SuperSite Orthopedics Today Orthopaedics Today International Orthopedics
Advanced Search Login to ORTHO SuperSite

To access this Web site for free, please register for the ORTHO SuperSite.com


Not an Ortho SuperSite member yet? Already an Ortho SuperSite member?
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* Daily news
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---------

The rest is just blue screen

That's wierd! What is your operating system and what browser are you using? No trouble here with Mac OS Tiger 10.4.7 (or eight - can never remember) & Firefox (latest version).

[Pooka1]

That's wierd! What is your operating system and what browser are you using? No trouble here with Mac OS Tiger 10.4.7 (or eight - can never remember) & Firefox (latest version).

Did you register at any point?

[mamamax]

Did you register at any point?

No. I could email you the page (there is a link for that) - send a PM if you would like me to do that.

I was able to save it as a PDF file, but once again our sharing ability here is too limited to post.

[Pooka1]

I just want to point out (again) that there is a difference between measuring an angle using the common approach or the centroid approach and interpreting or tweaking that angle.

My claim is ONLY that measurement using either of those approaches does not have a steep learning curve.

Interpreting it amidst all the other considerations is pro territory.

I suspect this distinction is being lost in the fray.

[mamamax]

Well, really my original quest was to find an easy way to measure cobb angles. I'm not sure yet that this exists. Sorry we can cannot share the original article - I don't know why I have some special access to it.

I went looking for a similar article. Was a bit floored by what I found over at the Scoliosis Journal - six different methods of measuring degree of curvature.

http://scoliosisjournal.com/content/3/1/16

Can we choose one of these methods for purposes of our discussion? And are you able to see this article in its entirety?

[Pooka1]

Well, really my original quest was to find an easy way to measure cobb angles. I'm not sure yet that this exists. Sorry we can cannot share the original article - I don't know why I have some special access to it.

I went looking for a similar article. Was a bit floored by what I found over at the Scoliosis Journal - six different methods of measuring degree of curvature.

http://scoliosisjournal.com/content/3/1/16

Can we choose one of these methods for purposes of our discussion? And are you able to see this article in its entirety?

These are not ways to measure curvature. They are ways to measure rotation.

[cbeem]

Funny that the conversation turned this way because when I first got those xrays I thought the way the radiologist drew the lines on the curve seemed wrong. I looked up how to do the Cobb measurement. I actually am a doctor--but of English! LOL! I only have a cd of the xrays, so there I was with paper up to the screen trying to draw lines with a ruler and a pencil on paper--needless to say, I couldn't really do much with that.

It did seem pretty simple to do the Cobb measurement--draw the lines out from the top and bottom until the lines meet and then measure the angle--but yeah, maybe I should have called on one of my engineering students or something to help me! LOL. For now, though, I do feel that the xrays don't take the rotation into account and don't seem to reflect the severity of how I feel even if it is the right number on the measurement--and it is a bit validating to hear others say that it doesn't look like a simple 34 degree curve. At the least, you've all encouraged me to get a second opinion. Thank you!

Cristy

[Pooka1]

A doctorate in English is overkill for measuring Cobb angles. In my opinion.... you are OVERqualified.

Another approach is to find some radiographs on line that are of known 34* and 38* curvature and see if they resemble your curves. A complicating factor here I think will be the relatively small number of vertebrae involved in your upper curve... you might have a hard time finding a radiograph like that and eyeballing between a curve with a large versus small number of involved vertebrae might be hard to do per se.

I wish you luck.

[mamamax]

These are not ways to measure curvature. They are ways to measure rotation.

I noticed that - so now I have a new question. Is rotation a factor that should be considered in an accurate measurement of one's condition ... for purposes of treatment recommendations?

Yes I know - and apologize - I ask too many questions. Guess it would not surprise anyone to hear I was tagged as precocious in childhood :-)

And I guess I'm just dumb as a rock - I still cannot see any easy way to challenge the measurements of a surgeon - or - someone with more knowledge of this than myself. *faints*