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Thread: Rods break 100% of the time!

  1. #1
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    Rods break 100% of the time!

    I just read a case study from the CLEAR INSTITUTE and read the letter that a patient sent in. This is what the letter said,

    " I researched the surgery and found out that 40% of the people who have the rod surgery are considered disabled within 5 years. And then I found out that the surgery doesn't stop the curvature and that it gradually returns to what it was pre-surgery and that the rods bend or break at some point almost 100% of the time. The studies showed that the higher the curvature the more likely that pain would persist long term after surgery."

    IS ANY OF THIS TRUE AND IF NOT, WHY WOULD THEY PUT IT ON THEIR WEBSITE?

    I am scheduled for surgery on Dec. 9th, but still doing tons of research on my surgery and looking for any alternative.

    rich

  2. #2
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    Hi Rich,

    I honestly have never heard of the "Clear Institute". How did you find this article?

    I can't wait until you reply, because I can't wait to read this and who wrote it!!! I'm going to try to find this Instiitute. For any professional Institution to claim that ANYTHING happens 100% of the time, is unrealistic to me.

    Of course, I'm no Doc., but what you have said, has upset me.
    I find this so hard to believe!!!

    Confused,
    Shari

  3. #3
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    have seen "Clear Institute" mentioned many times on forum in "non surgical" section...thought there was no factual proof of their tx resulting in any improvement to scoli, but believe they knock fusion surgery repeatedly...

    jess

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1752 View Post
    I just read a case study from the CLEAR INSTITUTE and read the letter that a patient sent in. This is what the letter said,

    " I researched the surgery and found out that 40% of the people who have the rod surgery are considered disabled within 5 years. And then I found out that the surgery doesn't stop the curvature and that it gradually returns to what it was pre-surgery and that the rods bend or break at some point almost 100% of the time. The studies showed that the higher the curvature the more likely that pain would persist long term after surgery."

    IS ANY OF THIS TRUE AND IF NOT, WHY WOULD THEY PUT IT ON THEIR WEBSITE?

    I am scheduled for surgery on Dec. 9th, but still doing tons of research on my surgery and looking for any alternative.

    rich

    They put this on their website because they are a bunch of quacks try to scare patients away from surgery and into their clinics. If you read this forum you will find many people who went 20 or 30 years after surgery, even with the old Harrington rods, and do just fine. I know rods can break sometimes (if the fusion wasn't originally complete), but 100% of the time is an outright lie.

    Make your own decision, but don't let their lies freak you out.
    __________________________________________
    Debbe - 50 yrs old

    Milwalkee Brace 1976 - 79
    Told by Dr. my curve would never progress

    Surgery 10/15/08 in NYC by Dr. Michael Neuwirth
    Pre-Surgury Thorasic: 66 degrees
    Pre-Surgery Lumbar: 66 degrees

    Post-Surgery Thorasic: 34 degrees
    Post-Surgery Lumbar: 22 degrees

  5. #5
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    Please send me the site where you read that. I will send it to Quackwatch for listing on their site.

    Clear is quacky for sure.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #6
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    Also, please ask your surgeon about this and say "Clear" said this. Check his reaction.

    Also ask Clear for the data to show this.

    It is a LIE. They are not simply mistaken.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 10-31-2009 at 09:21 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #7
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    what a load of ....

    O.K. so I read your thread, did a search on the net. Found a couple of post-op research papers on hardware - nothing really major there. Then read a couple of sites that funnily enough, the content was that letter from Clears brag board - so to speak. Bottom denominator - they are all Chiro's. Not that all Chiros are bad, but some are real cowboys, especially when they tell you, "you don't need surgery to correct your curve, because you are under stress, I can tell because you have frown lines on your forehead". No .... Sherlock, I'm in a lot of pain and trying to work out where you're coming from.
    My advice, if you do any research, look at research papers written by reputable Orthos. They give insight both ways, good and bad.
    Vali
    44 years young! now 45
    Surgery - June 1st, 2009
    Dr David Hall - Adelaide Spine Clinic
    St. Andrews Hospital, Adelaide, South Australia
    Pre-op curve - 58 degree lumbar
    Post -op - 5 degrees
    T11 - S1 Posterior
    L4/5 - L5/S1 Anterior Fusion

  8. #8
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    Is there any truth to the part that says the curvature will return to it's original degrees? I don't see why we would be put under such a traumatic surgery if it was not permanent...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixasu View Post
    Is there any truth to the part that says the curvature will return to it's original degrees? I don't see why we would be put under such a traumatic surgery if it was not permanent...
    It is impossible to return to the previous curvature if a solid fusion is achieved and its not later broken in a traumatic injury or something.

    It's like asking will a broken arm bone return to being broken (absent trauma).
    Last edited by Pooka1; 10-31-2009 at 03:04 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #10
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    CLEAR Institute's claim that 40% of people are handicapped after surgery refers to a study concerning the Harrington Rod, which is now obsolete and has not been in regular use for scoliosis surgeries in the US or Europe for over 20 years. Since the study was written in 2002, those referred to would have had their surgeries in 1986 or earlier.

    “On average, 16 years after surgery, 40% of surgery patient are permanently handicapped for the rest of their lives” (Long-term results of quality of life in patients with idiopathic scoliosis after Harrington instrumentation and their relevance for expert evidence. Gotze C, Slomka A, Gotze HG, Potsl W, Liljenqvist U, Stienbeck J. Z Orthop Ihre Grensgeb 2002 Sep-Oct, 140


    I haven't read this study but I would like to know what the definition of "handicapped" is.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonibunny View Post
    CLEAR Institute's claim that 40% of people are handicapped after surgery refers to a study concerning the Harrington Rod, which is now obsolete and has not been in regular use for scoliosis surgeries in the US or Europe for over 20 years. Since the study was written in 2002, those referred to would have had their surgeries in 1986 or earlier.

    “On average, 16 years after surgery, 40% of surgery patient are permanently handicapped for the rest of their lives” (Long-term results of quality of life in patients with idiopathic scoliosis after Harrington instrumentation and their relevance for expert evidence. Gotze C, Slomka A, Gotze HG, Potsl W, Liljenqvist U, Stienbeck J. Z Orthop Ihre Grensgeb 2002 Sep-Oct, 140


    I haven't read this study but I would like to know what the definition of "handicapped" is.
    I hope nobody is wondering why chiros have a bad reputation.

    The relatively few evidence-based chiros are probably mortified at the sheer volume of misrepresentations put out there by the quacky ones.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #12
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    Here's the abstract and link:

    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14505099

    "Aim: The expert evidence of operated patients with idiopathic scoliosis is determined by functional and pulmonary restriction. The degree of deformity and the extent of fusion is crucial for grading disability. In a retrospective study on the quality of life (SF-36) and low back pain (Roland-Morris Score) of 82 patients (22-40 years) with idiopathic scoliosis treated with Harrington instrumentation the grading was registered. Method: An average of 16.7 years after the surgery, these data were correlated with the type and size of curve and to the extension of fusion. Results: Compared to the age-matched healthy population, there was no significant difference in the physical SF-36 scale (P = 0.98). Surgically treated patients showed significantly lower scores than at baseline in the psychological SF-36 scale (P=0.005). Sixty-five (79.3%) of the eighty-two patients reported no or occasional back pain in the Roland Index. Five patients (6.1 %) complained of chronic back pain. 33 patients (40%) were legally defined in their rate of disability as severely handicapped patients. The grading disability was associated with the physical SF-36 scale (P< 0.001) and the low back pain (P = 0.02). A significant correlation between the grading disability and the extent of fusion (P = 0.53) or the size of curve (p=0.4) could not be proven. Conclusion: Despite good long-term outcomes, 40% of operated treated patients with idiopathic scoliosis were legally defined as severely handicapped persons. The additional measurements of quality of life and low-back pain can improve legal assessment in orthopaedics"

    82 patients. 65 of them are totally fine in terms of pain. 5 are in pain. Not sure what the status of the remaining 12 is.

    Here is the test they used: http://www.sf-36.org/tools/sf36.shtml

    And here is their summary: "Despite good long-term outcomes, 40% of operated treated patients with idiopathic scoliosis were legally defined as severely handicapped persons." which completely puzzles me. What are the "good long-term outcomes" which somehow don't relate to the legal disability.

    Is their point that they were legally considered disabled even though, by all measures, they weren't? According to the study, they don't differ from a "normal" population on the physical measure of the scale, although they do differ psychologically.
    Last edited by hdugger; 10-31-2009 at 04:51 PM.

  13. #13
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    From the abstract...

    "Compared to the age-matched healthy population,[...]"

    I'd like to see these results, which don't sound all that bad by the way, compared to scoliotics who did NOT get fused. Let's just see the disability scores for that crowd, shall we? Let's see how many can even hold a pen in order to answer a questionnaire.

    If folks didn't realize there are a lot of published papers out there that are very weak, hopefully papers like this remove all doubt.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #14
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    Yes, exactly. If they compare well to a healthy population after a long fusion and 20 years with harrington rods, that's pretty darn good!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    From the abstract...

    "Compared to the age-matched healthy population,[...]"

    I'd like to see these results, which don't sound all that bad by the way, compared to scoliotics who did NOT get fused. Let's just see the disability scores for that crowd, shall we? Let's see how many can even hold a pen in order to answer a questionnaire.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonibunny View Post
    CLEAR Institute's claim that 40% of people are handicapped after surgery refers to a study concerning the Harrington Rod, which is now obsolete and has not been in regular use for scoliosis surgeries in the US or Europe for over 20 years. Since the study was written in 2002, those referred to would have had their surgeries in 1986 or earlier.

    “On average, 16 years after surgery, 40% of surgery patient are permanently handicapped for the rest of their lives” (Long-term results of quality of life in patients with idiopathic scoliosis after Harrington instrumentation and their relevance for expert evidence. Gotze C, Slomka A, Gotze HG, Potsl W, Liljenqvist U, Stienbeck J. Z Orthop Ihre Grensgeb 2002 Sep-Oct, 140


    I haven't read this study but I would like to know what the definition of "handicapped" is.
    It's important to understand that 1) this is a single center study, so the results are only as good as the surgeons at that center, and 2) if only 6% of the patients have regular pain, they're actually doing better than the general public. It's possible that the disability has something to do with the cohort. Perhaps they were all disabled before their surgery.

    --Linda

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