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Thread: Clear institute ~ have you tried it?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ursulaj View Post
    See my post....Clear works if you work it
    Are you going to do the Clear protocol the rest of your life?

    Did you know Clear admits they have no results that prove their method is effective at avoiding surgery? Do you like paying for them to experiment on you, especially when they have no ability to analyze the results? Why aren't they paying you?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  2. #62
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    Clear rocks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Are you going to do the Clear protocol the rest of your life?

    Did you know Clear admits they have no results that prove their method is effective at avoiding surgery? Do you like paying for them to experiment on you, especially when they have no ability to analyze the results? Why aren't they paying you?
    I don't care much about studies, medical degress, qualifications, etc.....I only care about RESULTS for me and my loved ones....PERIOD. If something gives me results that are positive then I keep doing it. Clear is an excellent scoliosis MANAGEMENT program NOT a cure....By the way, there are very few "permanent cures" for any disease out there and even the medical establishment you seem to like uphold doesn't make any money back guarantees or promises regarding disease management or surgeries either. When was the last time you walked into any MD's office and he/she gave you a money back guarantee that they were going to permanently cure you of "whatever" with medicine or that a surgery was going to go off without a hitch... LOL!!!
    The don't call it "practicing" medicine for nothing.....

    You mention the lack of proof or studies with this method....All I have to say is that I have personally seen plenty of xrays at the Clear Chiro's offices I've been to of various patients' BEFORE and AFTER treatment that showed in most cases anywhere from 30-50% reductions. I also have talked to a lot of people while in the office during treatment asking them all kinds of questions like "so what do you think of this?" "are you getting results" "how long have you been at this" "what else have you tried" and so on. I'm an easy going, talkative person so I can get people to open up no problem.

    What I'm saying is totally anecdotal but I have to say that everyone I talked to was VERY happy to OVERJOYED with the results they got or their children got with CLEAR. In discussing the program itself, everyone agreed it was rigorous, not cheap, and sometimes hard to keep up with because it's human nature to want to slack off and forget about it once when you get better. However, many felt that it was worth every minute and penny put into it once they felt the relief themselves or saw how it had benefited their children.

    Therefore, I'm also am not overly obsessed with studies when I can talk with many actual people who have gotten results....their "experience story" is more important and relevant to me than some anonymous "study" conducted by people I don't know anything about whose motives for the study I'm not familiar with either.

  3. #63
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    I am just now learning about CLEAR but obviously need to do more research but was wondering if someone could state simply what exactly it is. Also, being in Canada, we generally don't pay for medical treatments so I'm not in tune to what things cost. How much does this CLEAR treatment cost on average?

  4. #64
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    Congratulations ursulaj - may the success continue for you and your family!

    I can't help but notice that improved lung function comes along with all this. Something Martha Hawes achieved and something Schroth achieves. Now Martha of course did not use bracing, CLEAR, or Schroth. So this seemingly reoccurring improvement in lung function going hand in hand with curvature reduction, is a very curious thing to me.
    Last edited by mamamax; 11-14-2010 at 02:19 PM.
    Idiopathic, from the Latin meaning: we're idiots 'cause we can't figure out what's causing it (TV Dr. House, MD)

    I'm not weird ... I'm simply - multifactorial

  5. #65
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    Just curious...

    I have a question for those who have done the Clear program. At what point in the program do they do the x-rays? By that I mean, how much time elapses between the conclusion of the exercises (or whatever) and the x-ray--is it minutes, hours, days, weeks? I am uncertain when people talk about their improved out of brace results after Clear, what the timing is of the x-ray. Thanks
    mamandcrm

    G diagnosed 6/08 at almost 7 with 25*
    Providence night brace, increased to 35*
    Rigo-Cheneau brace full-time 12/08-4/10
    14* at 10/09 OOB x-ray
    11* at 4/10 OOB x-ray
    Wearing R-C part-time since 4/10
    latest OOB xray 5/14 13*
    currently going on 13 yrs old

    I no longer participate in this forum though I will update signature from time to time with status

  6. #66
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    Clear Experience

    mamandcrm

    Below is your question:

    I have a question for those who have done the Clear program. At what point in the program do they do the x-rays? By that I mean, how much time elapses between the conclusion of the exercises (or whatever) and the x-ray--is it minutes, hours, days, weeks? I am uncertain when people talk about their improved out of brace results after Clear, what the timing is of the x-ray. Thanks

    As you know we (Syd and I) have created and followed our own program that is not approved or very well accepted by any surgeon, chiropractor, physical therapist, or orthotist. But we are doing what we think is best based on many studies and the input of many different professionals.

    As stated before in other posts Syd has been wearing the SpineCor since last November (2009) when she was 36 degrees. Then in January she did the 2 week Clear program with Dr. Sid in Manhattan. We picked Dr. Sid because he was the only Clear person who believed in Clear and bracing (with the SpineCor). And after visiting Dr. Betz on VBS at Shriners Hospital Syd is now also wearing a Boston brace. And we have done a second 2 week treatment with Dr. Sid in June.

    Being the engineering type person that I am, I am very involved in every measurement, technique, etc. and try to not mix too many techniques so that I can evaluate the success of only one or two methods. While Syd is doing all of these mentioned above, there have been periods of time we did only one or two treatments to evaluate the results.

    But with all that said Syd has gone from 36 deg to about 18-20 degrees (48 hours out of brace for all measurements) between October 2009 and June 2010. I am very pleased with these results. And in this process we were once considered a VBS with hybrid rod candidate and now she is no longer even considered a VBS candidate. That is good and bad news.

    And I have my own theory on what Clear can do along with bracing, but no proof except my own child's results. But I do believe one result of Clear is a spine that is loosened that will enable it to move better with bracing. And my last visit at Dr. Sid's proved that theory. We went into the session with a 10 deg in-brace measurement and left with a 3 deg in-brace measurement. Studies show that out of brace correction is very dependent on in-brace correction.

    And, to keep it fair, I do all the cobb angle calculations to reduce any error in the measurements or any bias. I have a tool from Shriners hospital that I use and when I visit the hospital I pay to have all my x-rays loaded on disc.

    So, to answer your question, when are x-rays taken. I assume this varies by each Clear person. I discussed it with Dr. Sid before we started. We did a measurement before any treatment (48 hours out of brace). During the treatment Syd wore her SpineCor brace during some of the treatment and at night. By the way the treatment is two weeks about 6-8 hours per day (for us who are out of town). Only about 3-4 hours on weekends. This may vary by each Clear person. We did some x-rays about half way through the session to confirm we were getting the movement we wanted. Then we did one at the very end. In our case we had the weekend before the last measurement so Syd did not wear her brace. Then we followed a program at home 1-2 hours per day for about 8 weeks. The reduction is not significant but I will take 3-5 degrees anytime, especially if we can maintain it, and build on it. So after the first treatment Syd reduced from about 30 deg to maybe 26 deg, and after 8 weeks we held it. Then she went into the Boston brace. After about 2-3 months of that (and SpineCor) we were down to about 22-23 degrees. Then we did Clear again and in the end Syd was down to about 18-20 deg out of brace, and 10 deg down to 3 deg in brace. I was very excited to leave there with her around 3 deg in the Boston brace. The second time we did the treatment we completed the treatment for the day and Syd received an x-ray before we left, so it was within an hour of her last treatment.

    Please let me know if you have any additional questions. I cannot recommend any Clear person other than Dr. Sid. I would have probably gone to Dr. Woggon but he did not support Syd wearing the SpineCor brace. I think the cost is around $5,000 - $6,000 for the two week program based on where you go. My insurance did not cover any of it, or the SpineCor brace. It has been a very expensive year along with all the travel expenses. But had to do it! We have one chance to get this right, especially while she is so young and we can reduce the curve. Our goal is to get as close to 10 degrees or less out of brace. I don't know if we will get there. I have considered going with the Cheneau brace with the theory (or hypothesis for those who care to make a difference) that we can get an overcorrection with it. I am a strong believer that if you want to get to 10 deg or even down to 0 deg we need an overcorrection in the brace.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Michael

  7. #67
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    Thanks ursulaj - I agree!

    ursulaj

    I want you to know that I very much appreciate and support your thinking on what treatment should be followed. I have read well over 50+ studies on scoliosis. Most are not relevant to my daughter (8 yrs old, 36 deg curve, etc.). And my daughter has been to 4 pediatric orthopedic surgeons, 3 chiropractors specializing in scoliosis, including one in Schroth, 3 orthotists, and two physical therapists.

    The only thing constant about all of them is that that they do not agree on treatment for scoliosis. And some of them, including one pediatric orthopedic surgeons changed his minds between one visit and the next. When I suggested bracing as a solution I was told it would not work, only later to be told by the same surgeon that my daughter is an ideal candidate for bracing. Figure that one out. But I still very much value his input and recommendations.

    And in the beginning I was told by every pediatric orthopedic surgeon that the curve could not be reduced, but only maintained. I think most of them were reading the adolescent studies, not the juvenile ones (because there are none or very few juvenile bracing studies). Juveniles seem to have much greater success in curve reduction than adolescents. So, it is hard to follow studies (that may or may not be biased and may or may not be relevant) and it is hard to take any single doctor/professionals advice as the single only right answer.

    Last year I met with three orthopedic pediatric surgeons and all 3 had different treatment recommendations. One said bracing would never work for my daughter and we should not do it, another recommended the Charleston brace, and the third recommended the SpineCor brace. Again, I very much value the input from all of these surgeons. I don't discredit any of them, but they don't have a proven solution to recommend, only suggestions and ideas.

    This is when I learned that I needed to do what is best for my child taking the professional advice from several people AND... listening to the parents of children who have a daughter at about the same age, especially those who were very similar (30+ deg thoracic curve, age 8). When I see reductions down to 20 deg or even 10 deg I am going to listen to these people, and I am going to value their input. It does not mean I will follow it exactly, but I will add it to what I already know.

    My daughter has done Clear, wears a SpineCor brace (to school and to play sports), and also a Boston brace (at home and at night). Every doctor/professional that I tell this to tells me it will not work, that physcial therapy has no impact, and that the wearing of two different braces (let alone one single brace), will not work.

    My daughter is down from 36 deg to almost 18-20 deg between Nov 2009 - Jun 2010. I don't know if we can hold this improvement or whether we can continue to get more improvement. But we are going to continue this treatment program. I have also narrowed the doctor/professionals down to Dr. Betz (pediatric orthopedic surgeon) at Shriners Hospital in Philadelphia and Dr. Sid Clear/Spinecor chiropractor in Manhattan. I trust them and they have both kept an open mind on my daughter's treatment. Finding a doctor/professional (or two in my case) with an open mind enough to respect the value of other treatments is very difficult. While Dr. Betz may not support Clear and the SpineCor brace, he has been open to it if that is what we want to do. However, he would prefer my daughter spend much more time in the Boston brace (me too). And Dr. Sid, who supports Clear and the SpineCor brace does not support a hard brace like the Boston brace but he is open to seeing what results we get with his treatment and the Boston brace. I can't ask for anything more than that from each of them.

    Thanks again for your comments.

    I wish you great success.

    Michael

  8. #68
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    Thank you for your reply Michael. I guess it just kind of varies. We are not looking into Clear as a treatment option, I was just curious as I do read others posts about it. BTW, G has never had an overcorrection with her brace that we are aware of (we don't do in-brace x-rays anymore), and her curve has gotten quite low. But every kid is different. At this point in-brace overcorrection is something we try to avoid because there is a risk of actual overcorrection and creating a new curve in the opposite direction.

    I am happy to hear that you are finding success with reducing your little girl's curve. Continued good luck!
    Last edited by mamandcrm; 11-15-2010 at 02:55 PM.
    mamandcrm

    G diagnosed 6/08 at almost 7 with 25*
    Providence night brace, increased to 35*
    Rigo-Cheneau brace full-time 12/08-4/10
    14* at 10/09 OOB x-ray
    11* at 4/10 OOB x-ray
    Wearing R-C part-time since 4/10
    latest OOB xray 5/14 13*
    currently going on 13 yrs old

    I no longer participate in this forum though I will update signature from time to time with status

  9. #69
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    Location
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    @Michael1960

    That's some very clear thinking in a sea of uncertainty.

    I invite folks to compare and contrast that clarity with the stuff on Fix's Clear site coming from those chiros (Morningstar and other evidence-based chiros not included).
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #70
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    Apr 2009
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    Michael - It is good to hear from you and good to know that Syd continues to get good results. Best wishes for continued success!
    Idiopathic, from the Latin meaning: we're idiots 'cause we can't figure out what's causing it (TV Dr. House, MD)

    I'm not weird ... I'm simply - multifactorial

  11. #71
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    I noticed improved lung function by like my third or fourth day while doing intensive treatment....it was like I took a deep breath and noticed that that I still had more room to inhale...sounds silly saying it like that but it's so true! I've also heard the same thing from many others I've talked to. It's one of the very first things you notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    Congratulations ursulaj - may the success continue for you and your family!

    I can't help but notice that improved lung function comes along with all this. Something Martha Hawes achieved and something Schroth achieves. Now Martha of course did not use bracing, CLEAR, or Schroth. So this seemingly reoccurring improvement in lung function going hand in hand with curvature reduction, is a very curious thing to me.

  12. #72
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    You get xrayed from different angles in very beginning before you start and then in the middle right after what Clear calls your "set" exercises. Based on the results you either contintue with what you are doing or your routine gets modified if the results are not what the Dr. is looking for. You also get xrayed at the very end after your last "set" exercise. Then you are sent home with your daily routine for 3 months. Then on follow up day you are xrayed when you walk in the office to see how the correction has held. You are then advised as to what to do next....keep doing what you're doing and come back for another recheck in "x" amount of months or come back for another intensive session, or whatever it is. From that point depending on how far you are from a Clear center you are put on a schedule (this also depends on your availability, resources, etc.). Most Dr. will probably want to shoot an xray once a month in the beginning at least to monitor progress and then maybe once every two to three months after that.
    Quote Originally Posted by mamandcrm View Post
    I have a question for those who have done the Clear program. At what point in the program do they do the x-rays? By that I mean, how much time elapses between the conclusion of the exercises (or whatever) and the x-ray--is it minutes, hours, days, weeks? I am uncertain when people talk about their improved out of brace results after Clear, what the timing is of the x-ray. Thanks

  13. #73
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    Sep 2003
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    NJ
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    Sounds like a lot of radiation to me. Do they shield the breasts and reproductive parts???
    Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
    Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction

  14. #74
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    Oct 2008
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    Although my post was directed more to whether an accurate reading is being obtained, the amount of radiation also is a concern. For those who do this treatment, if shielding is not provided, please be aware that you can purchase your own shields from medical supply companies. I purchased a half-apron for my daughter a couple of years ago because the children's hospital here does not shield for scoliosis x-rays and does not have physical shields available if you want to request one. Surprising, but true.
    mamandcrm

    G diagnosed 6/08 at almost 7 with 25*
    Providence night brace, increased to 35*
    Rigo-Cheneau brace full-time 12/08-4/10
    14* at 10/09 OOB x-ray
    11* at 4/10 OOB x-ray
    Wearing R-C part-time since 4/10
    latest OOB xray 5/14 13*
    currently going on 13 yrs old

    I no longer participate in this forum though I will update signature from time to time with status

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