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Thread: Success! Down to 24 degrees!

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariaf View Post
    I ask this sincerely, not sarcastically.....outside of studies published by the inventors of the brace, where is the proof that Spinecor, or any brace for that matter, has been successful in permanently correcting curves?

    It is my understanding (and I believe it is also the belief of most of the top doctors in the field) that no brace has ever been proven to do that.

    If there has been proof of this, and it is published somewhere, I would truly be interested in seeing it.

    Thanks.
    Hi Maria -

    Unfortunately, nothing can guarantee a permanent (forever lasting) correction - not even surgery, as was explained to me by the SRS surgeon I saw last year.

    There have been some Spinecor follow-ups and they are found at the Scoliosis Journal web site. Interestingly enough some Milwaukee follow-ups are also promising.

    As far as bracing in general - I'm hoping the BrAIST study will provide us with more information than we have now. The study director, Lori Dolan has posted some comments regarding that which you may find interesting:

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9641


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    A chiropractic doctor is given the title based upon education in the US - I don't know about other countries. Everyone understands this is not the same title as MD.
    I don't agree with that assertion at all, mamamax. I would be highly surprised if most people understood the difference between an MD and a chiropractor at all, let alone the fact that I've never seen any group throw the doctor title around as much as these chiros, even medical doctors tend not to use that term when speaking of themselves. The chiros make sure the Dr. or "Doc" title is in everything they write. And I'm sure in person also. It is apparently their method of trying to convince people of their validity/credibility.

    I suspect a significant portion of the chiros' clientele have never been to college and wouldn't realize the difference in various degrees and what they mean regarding training. In fact, I have a master's degree and it was well after college that I figured out what these "Doctor" degrees are from these training schools that are not associated with regular universities.

    I don't think is is right to disrespect the chiropractic profession - or the Spinecor doctors who are having success with this bracing method - or the patients who see them.
    I don't think it's "disrespect" to point out what's going on in apparently a lot of the chiropractic industry. When I visit these chiropractor sites all I can think of is used car salesmen. And when I read what they write, it is full of inaccuracies and misleading statements about what they can accomplish.

    I think if some people can get help with their pain though chiropractic adjustments, good for them. However, I think the treatment of actual conditions such as scoliosis really ought to be left to medical doctors. I'm surprised these medical boards haven't stepped on these scoliosis chiros hard for their claims regarding scoliosis. Obviously, they must be a powerful lobby here in the U.S.
    Last edited by Ballet Mom; 12-04-2009 at 12:35 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    [COLOR="Navy"]There have been some Spinecor follow-ups and they are found at the Scoliosis Journal web site.
    Thanks.

    I did find these - but the vast majority of these follow-ups were published by the inventors of the brace (Drs. Rivard and/or Colliard).

    That's not to say they can't be valid - but I think everyone is looking for some published studies that were done by someone other than the inventors of Spinecor.
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariaf View Post
    Thanks.

    I did find these - but the vast majority of these follow-ups were published by the inventors of the brace (Drs. Rivard and/or Colliard).

    That's not to say they can't be valid - but I think everyone is looking for some published studies that were done by someone other than the inventors of Spinecor.
    Your welcome maria - if you search a bit more, you'll see from Deutchman and Lamantai as well ... and an American Orthopist as well (I believe). Wong did two studies I believe - and if you look close (at those on the manufacturer's web site who are certified to treat unsupervised) we do not find Wong's name there. The key I believe in why some cannot duplicate the studies done by those who are certified to treat - unsupervised.


  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ballet Mom View Post
    I don't agree with that assertion at all, mamamax. I would be highly surprised if most people understood the difference between an MD and a chiropractor at all, let alone the fact that I've never seen any group throw the doctor title around as much as these chiros, even medical doctors tend not to use that term when speaking of themselves. The chiros make sure the Dr. or "Doc" title is in everything they write. And I'm sure in person also. It is apparently their method of trying to convince people of their validity/credibility.

    I suspect a significant portion of the chiros' clientele have never been to college and wouldn't realize the difference in various degrees and what they mean regarding training. In fact, I have a master's degree and it was well after college that I figured out what these "Doctor" degrees are from these training schools that are not associated with regular universities.



    I don't think it's "disrespect" to point out what's going on in apparently a lot of the chiropractic industry. When I visit these chiropractor sites all I can think of is used car salesmen. And when I read what they write, it is full of inaccuracies and misleading statements about what they can accomplish.

    I think if some people can get help with their pain though chiropractic adjustments, good for them. However, I think the treatment of actual conditions such as scoliosis really ought to be left to medical doctors. I'm surprised these medical boards haven't stepped on these scoliosis chiros hard for their claims regarding scoliosis. Obviously, they must be a powerful lobby here in the U.S.
    We disagree on the intelligence level of most people. I knew the difference between various doctor titles before I got out of High School -over 40 years ago

    In the last 40 years of dealing with my condition, and discussing it with others, I’ve never come across someone who thought a chiropractor had the same level of title as an MD. You were not aware of this until after achieving a Master’s Degree? That’s a bit surprising. I still think most people are a little more savvy than you may be giving them credit for.

    There is a LOT of misrepresented information on the Internet, and the professions where we find this is wide ranging and unlimited. Why would anyone decide to negatively classify an entire profession based on the actions of a few? Not good reasoning skills in my estimation, based upon an analytical thinking class I took in college.

    The chiropractic profession is also not dismissed among the more traditional medical fields – as evidenced every day by medical doctors who often refer their patients to chiropractors for treatment. The professions often work together. I include my medical doctor/orthopedic specialist in on my Spinecor treatment (as do many other Spinecor patients) and in this way help expand the knowledge base for benefit of all.

    The chiropractic profession finds a degree of respect many places – the well respected surgeon, Hans Weiss, MD, is in fact also a chiropractor (German school).

    I applaud those chiropractic doctors like mine, who have made scoliosis treatment their specialty and field of focus – who have trained with Rivard and Colliard (surgeon inventors of the Spinecor brace, one of whom is an SRS member) and maintain a professional relationship with them; who have become Spinecor certified to a level where they can provide this bracing technique unsupervised; who conduct (and publish in the Scoliosis Journal) ongoing studies which duplicate the results of Rivard & Colliard; who have travelled several times to Germany to receive certification in Schroth; and who offer their education, knowledge, and expertise to many patients like myself throughout the United States every day. And, faulty reasoning skills (damning all based on the actions of a few) cannot negate the documented successes they (and other Spinecor certified chiropractors) achieve.

    Just my humble opinion ;-)


    Last edited by mamamax; 12-04-2009 at 06:03 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    Your welcome maria - if you search a bit more, you'll see from Deutchman and Lamantai as well ... and an American Orthopist as well (I believe). Wong did two studies I believe - and if you look close (at those on the manufacturer's web site who are certified to treat unsupervised) we do not find Wong's name there. The key I believe in why some cannot duplicate the studies done by those who are certified to treat - unsupervised.

    No Wong responded to the criticism. Spinecor did not respond honestly in my opinion.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    I applaud those chiropractic doctors like mine, who have made scoliosis treatment their specialty and field of focus – who have trained with Rivard and Colliard
    If surgeons in the US used the brace rather than abandon it or never try it based on the literature, do you think anyone would be going to chiros for the brace?
    Last edited by Pooka1; 12-04-2009 at 06:14 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #68
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    based on my expierence they would go straight to surgery which is not a option i like
    Diagonosed:age12
    and im still alright

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid_15 View Post
    based on my experience they would go straight to surgery which is not a option i like
    If you could get Spinecor from either surgeon or a chiropractor, which would you choose and why?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    No Wong responded to the criticism. Spinecor did not respond honestly in my opinion.
    Are you kidding - Sharon, are you talking about the Spinecor rebuttal published on their website? I presume you actually read it? Please let me you did.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    Are you kidding - Sharon, are you talking about the Spinecor rebuttal published on their website? I presume you actually read it? Please let me you did.
    I read it and I read Wong's reply to it. Wong was believable. Spinecor was not for the most part.

    And your reputable surgeon/chiro Weiss also did Spinecor study that couldn't replicate the Montreal team's results as you know.

    Why do you think the surgeons in the US abandoned or never started to use Spinecor? Are they all just nutty?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    If surgeons in the US used the brace rather than abandon it or never try it based on the literature, do you think anyone would be going to chiros for the brace?
    Think Kid15 responded better than I could have! Touche' Kid15

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    I read it and I read Wong's reply to it. Wong was believable. Spinecor was not for the most part.

    And your reputable surgeon/chiro Weiss also did Spinecor study that couldn't replicate the Montreal team's results as you know.

    Why do you think the surgeons in the US abandoned or never started to use Spinecor? Are they all just nutty?
    Weiss (whom I do have a GREAT deal of respect for - is also not certified to treat or apply the Spinecor technique unsupervised.

    I think the surgeons in the US could not be bothered - Go Canada!!

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    I think the surgeons in the US could not be bothered - Go Canada!!
    Surgeons in the US couldn't be bothered to use something that will help their patients?

    Are they all just evil?

    I can show you at least one surgeon who cares and I bet you would be hard-pressed to even find one that didn't care about their patients. Surgeons are the good guys in this game.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Oh so you don't think any other brace besides Spinecor has a chance in hell of working then? Everyone else in n on-Spinecor braces is headed for surgery for sure? I'm sure that will come as some news to some here.

    That's the logical implication of her comment which I refrained from pointing out before your comment.
    No, that absolutely is not true - I think other braces also achieve some success - I wish Spinecor had been included in the BrAIST study, or will be included as that study stands to be one of the most important bracing studies in history. Joe O'Brien's family alone shows the benefits of different types of braces.

    Spinecor of course, as most of us know, is not the standard TSLO type brace - it behaves differently in many ways. For many it is a brace of choice and CHOICE is what treatment is all about right?

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