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  • #31
    Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
    Actually, there are layers of muscle and fat.

    I have stainless steel rods, and as far as I can tell, they've never gotten cold.
    Hey Linda, Speak for yourself about the fat. Sorry, I added the bold lettering to your quote. My fat is all in the abdomen. I know there is muscle over my sacrum, but very little fat back there. When I sit on that cold leather seat, I really feel it. Yeah, how cold does it get in the Bay Area in the winter. I've only been there in the summertime.
    Sally
    Diagnosed with severe lumbar scoliosis at age 65.
    Posterior Fusion L2-S1 on 12/4/2007. age 67
    Anterior Fusion L3-L4,L4-L5,L5-S1 on 12/19/2007
    Additional bone removed to decompress right side of L3-L4 & L4-L5 on 4/19/2010
    New England Baptist Hospital, Boston, MA
    Dr. Frank F. Rands735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/butterflyfive/

    "In God We Trust" Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God. Painful moments, trust God. Every moment, thank God.

    Comment


    • #32
      Where I live it is winter and we have a cold frost (ice) over the ground and our temperatures are below freezing in the mornings but we do have sunny days anyway what I am getting to is, I have never ever thought of my rods getting cold, never felt them cold, now that I know other people are suffering with that, I can guarantee that after 43 years I will all of a sudden have cold Harrington rods!


      Lorraine.
      Operated on in 1966, harrington rods inserted from T4 to L3, here in Australia. Fusion of the said vertebrae as well. Problems for the last 14 years with pain.
      Something I feel deeply,"Life is like money,you can spend it anyway you wish, but can only spend it once.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by johnsonbunch View Post
        What's your take on steel rods versus titanium, and how does it feel in the winter with the cold? I'm still presurgery.
        I have a combination of Vitallium/titanium in my back, 316SS in my ankle and had 316SS in my knee for years (before it was removed). I didn't/don't notice one bit of difference in any of the hardware materials.

        Of course, I live in Houston. And, of course, it's too cold for my tastes here! ;-)

        Pam
        Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
        AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


        41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
        Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
        Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


        VIEW MY X-RAYS
        EMAIL ME

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by rainbow2010 View Post
          Steel rods cause distortion on MRIs. Titanium does not. Go with titanium!!
          There are other metallurgical options besides Ti (Titanium) and stainless (316 SS or 316L SS).

          Vitallium (I have the 6mm Stryker III XIA system) is durable, MRI-able and has taken everything I've thrown at it ... including 3 moves (the one this weekend was upstairs ... UGH) and slapping the ground playing softball.

          Do your research. Your hardware stays body temp ... the concept of cold rods is a falacy.

          I just noticed most describing a "sensation" are fairly new pre-ops ... give it some time. I felt a LOT of weird things in the beginning that turned out to be psychosomatic ...

          Pam
          Last edited by txmarinemom; 07-19-2009, 11:44 PM. Reason: noticing most describing a "feeling" are new pre-ops ...
          Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
          AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


          41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
          Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
          Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


          VIEW MY X-RAYS
          EMAIL ME

          Comment


          • #35
            Hi Johnsonbunch,

            Lots of people complain that they feel colder after they have their hardware installed. It most likely has nothing to do with the material selection, which will be determined by your surgeon. Titanium has a higher corrosion resistance than any stainless steel, and is of value in implants because of this. A lower chance for infection would probably be its most important attribute.

            Having a steel plate located in ones leg would probably feel cold in the winter. I know when I take my ski boots off after skiing, my toes feel like they are about 40 degreesF. Chances are that the temps "down there" are running a bit cooler, but this wouldn't have anything to do with material selection or thermal conductivity.

            After surgery, it takes a lot of energy to heal, and that makes you feel cold.
            Today, it was very hot and I thought my rods were going to melt. Whew! LOL
            Good luck with your future surgery.


            Sharon,

            Using "Stainlessed" would be a good name.... but then again, the name I have for my rv is "magic bus" LOL

            In reading here, Simon is the first one who is having problems with his nipples.... always something new.....

            Pam

            I totally agree with you on things being "psychosomatic" after surgery. Its funny, Lynn mentioned something about "thinking" about your scoilosis, and I noticed and thought about that this weekend. When you are doing things and your mind isn't consumed with pain, your fine until you stop and rethink about your pain...... Its like damn, why did I have to think about it.

            I ignored my pain as much as I could through all the years leading up to surgery, now I don't have to put an effort to ignore it and its nice. Its not 100% yet but real close. It takes time to reprogram and heal. I had some very minor tightness after carrying logs for the campfire.
            Ed

            If I don't post for a while, chances are, I'm in the mountains where air card coverage is quite limited. One of these days I will break down and buy a dish.
            49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
            Pre surgery curves T70,L70
            ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
            Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

            Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

            My x-rays
            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

            Comment


            • #36
              Could there be a difference between rods that are placed in the anterior of the spine (and are therefore nearer to the body's core) and rods that are places at the posterior?

              I have had a steel Harrington Rod for 23 years. I'm very thin and my Harrington lies directly under the skin over the posterior of my spine, so I guess it could be affected by temperature especially if I sit against a cold seat. I have often felt that the rod "gets cold", although I believe this sensation is more likely due to the fact that my back muscles tense when I am cold and this pulls on internal scar tissue and makes me a lot more uncomfortable.

              I also have anterior instrumentation that lies alongside the side of my lumbar vertebral bodies, but I never get the same "cold" sensation with that.

              It's an interesting theory, and I'm intrigued that others have felt the same sort of thing!

              Comment


              • #37
                What about hot?

                OK. It only makes sense to me if the rods conduct cold they would also conduct heat. How come no one's complaining of feeling hot. It was 106 in Boise Saturday, but I was out of town, in a cooler mountainous area. But it will be in the 100s this week, should I worry?!?

                Seriously, I don't feel the cool in my rods, and my body temp is usually at 97, rather than the "normal" 98.6. Of course, I do have some good insulation I am trying to lose...

                Lesley
                Les, Biker Babe, age 56 (at time of first surgery)
                Fused T2 to S2, posterior only, 8 Apr 08
                T3 fracture repair and revision, Mar 09
                Broke left lower rod and pelvic screws removal, Dec 09
                Scheduled to remove all hardware, replaced everything instead due to non-fusion, Nov 10
                Remove top 2" of rods and screws, Feb 14
                Pre surgery degrees: L40, T45
                Post surgery degrees: L8, T10

                Happy, joyous and pain-free!
                Surgeon: C Timothy Floyd, MD, Boise Orthopedic Clinic

                Comment


                • #38
                  Tonibunny

                  Good question. The only way to know, is to measure the temps. Its probable that 1 or 2 degrees would create the chill we feel.
                  Here is a site on thermal imaging. I found it very interesting how SURFACE temperatures reveals so much

                  http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26um%3D1

                  Lesley

                  I wouldn't worry too much, Titanium melts at 3135 degrees F. You might have a problem in Arizona. LOL

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_...dy_temperature

                  Core temps maintain within a few degrees. About 2.5 degrees total normal fluctuation. Hypothermia symptoms start at approx 2 degree drop in core temps. Doesn't sound like much.

                  Q.You know how to tell the difference between a regular thermometer and a rectal thermometer?
                  A. Taste

                  Ed
                  49 yr old male, now 63, the new 64...
                  Pre surgery curves T70,L70
                  ALIF/PSA T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
                  Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

                  Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
                  http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

                  My x-rays
                  http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

                  http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    i have titanium rods and screws. For some reason, after the surgery, I asked my husband to dig out my thermal singlets to wear under my pjs.I bought these for our European winter holiday (2007) and have not worn them since!
                    Maybe a coincidence or just recovery pangs of cold!
                    Vali
                    44 years young! now 45
                    Surgery - June 1st, 2009
                    Dr David Hall - Adelaide Spine Clinic
                    St. Andrews Hospital, Adelaide, South Australia
                    Pre-op curve - 58 degree lumbar
                    Post -op - 5 degrees
                    T11 - S1 Posterior
                    L4/5 - L5/S1 Anterior Fusion

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      From what my surgeon explained, titanium is more corrosion resistant than stainless steel, but it cannot be repeatably bent like steel without risk of breaking.

                      Scientific explanation of thermal conductivity:
                      The ability of a metal to conduct or transfer heat is called its thermal conductivity. Thus, a material, to be a good insulator, would have a low thermal conductivity, whereas a radiator would have a high rate of conductivity to dissipate the heat.

                      The thermal conductivity of titanium is roughly 50% higher than 316 stainless steel.

                      Titanium thermal conductivity: 22 Wm-1K-1
                      Stainless Steel thermal conductivity: 13 Wm-1K-1

                      Titanium has a high melting point of 3135°F, approximately 400°F above the melting point of steel.

                      And in response to the lightning rod thread:
                      Titanium is not a good conductor of electricity. If the conductivity of copper is considered to be 100%, titanium would have a conductivity of 3.1%. From this it follows that titanium would not be used where good conductivity is a prime factor. For comparison, stainless steel has a conductivity of 3.5% and aluminum has a conductivity of 30%.
                      Last edited by johnsonbunch; 08-05-2009, 08:59 AM.
                      Sandy

                      Thoracic curve was 55 degrees, now 30
                      Lumbar curve was 68 degrees, now 26
                      Rib rotation was 17 degrees, now 0
                      Degenerated discs and sacral arthritic spurs, plus significant spondylosis
                      Fused 8/13/09 at age 43 from T-9 to pelvis with iliac screws anchoring hardware to the pelvis, plus osteomies by Drs. Anthony Moreno and Geoff Cronen, Tampa, FL

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by titaniumed View Post


                        Q.You know how to tell the difference between a regular thermometer and a rectal thermometer?
                        A. Taste

                        Ed
                        GROSS ED!

                        As for cold going through your rods.......I was at my 1st PT appt. with my new guy and he wanted to ice me down after my workout. Well he put the ice packs on my back, right where my rods were and within a couple of Minutes my teeth were chattering! He moved them to the sides of my rods, not directly on them and it was MUCH better.

                        I have a combination of Titanium and steel.

                        Fused T10-L4

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Suzy View Post
                          GROSS ED!

                          As for cold going through your rods.......I was at my 1st PT appt. with my new guy and he wanted to ice me down after my workout. Well he put the ice packs on my back, right where my rods were and within a couple of Minutes my teeth were chattering! He moved them to the sides of my rods, not directly on them and it was MUCH better.

                          I have a combination of Titanium and steel.

                          Fused T10-L4
                          Ed prides himself on his quick-witted (and sometimes gross) humor; you never know what he will come up with next.

                          The cold packs don't bother me. My PT has put those flexible ice packs on my back when I'm having spasms, but only after she's had heat on me, and then massaged me a little. When I tried the cold packs at home without the heat first, it gave me a total opposite effect. I seemed to spasm up even more.
                          __________________________________________
                          Debbe - 50 yrs old

                          Milwalkee Brace 1976 - 79
                          Told by Dr. my curve would never progress

                          Surgery 10/15/08 in NYC by Dr. Michael Neuwirth
                          Pre-Surgury Thorasic: 66 degrees
                          Pre-Surgery Lumbar: 66 degrees

                          Post-Surgery Thorasic: 34 degrees
                          Post-Surgery Lumbar: 22 degrees

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Ed,
                            Great sense of humor however, that's just a little nasty! lol! How bout' something a little bit cleaner and more tasty??
                            Susan

                            Diagnosed at 10, Boston brace from 11-13 yrs old.
                            50* Lumbar w/ 5 centimeter shift to the left and slight rib hump...
                            Surgery Date: April 15 and April 22, 2009
                            X-LIF approach for disc repair L5,L4,L3,L2
                            Posterior Approach for fusions L5-T5
                            Dr. Fox @ Naval Medical Center Portsmouth
                            Nice and straight now!!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              lightening

                              Sandy,

                              That was a lot of scientific info...impressive but I'm so not scientific. However I understood the last part......titanium, not so good for attracking lightening. Good to know!
                              Susan

                              Diagnosed at 10, Boston brace from 11-13 yrs old.
                              50* Lumbar w/ 5 centimeter shift to the left and slight rib hump...
                              Surgery Date: April 15 and April 22, 2009
                              X-LIF approach for disc repair L5,L4,L3,L2
                              Posterior Approach for fusions L5-T5
                              Dr. Fox @ Naval Medical Center Portsmouth
                              Nice and straight now!!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by johnsonbunch View Post
                                Scientific explanation of thermal conductivity:
                                The ability of a metal to conduct or transfer heat is called its thermal conductivity. Thus, a material, to be a good insulator, would have a low thermal conductivity, whereas a radiator would have a high rate of conductivity to dissipate the heat.

                                The thermal conductivity of titanium is roughly 50% higher than 316 stainless steel.

                                Titanium thermal conductivity: 22 Wm-1K-1
                                Stainless Steel thermal conductivity: 13 Wm-1K-1
                                For heat to be conducted, you need a gradient.

                                If the rods are the same temp as the body (as they are) there is no gradient and therefore no thermal conductance happening.

                                Thus the thermal conductivity constants for each material don't really matter in this application.

                                Ti Ed will correct me if I'm wrong.
                                Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                                No island of sanity.

                                Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                                Answer: Medicine


                                "We are all African."

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