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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dingo View Post
    Pooka1



    You think that scoliosis is 10 fold higher in competitive, Bulgarian rhythmic gymnasts because "pre-scoliotic" children are attracted to this intense sport?
    Not so much attracted to but do well in and therefore stick around to be counted.

    I bet the incidence of scoliosis in the kids who try it and then quit it quickly for lack of the correct body type is the same as the general population.

    Perhaps you think "general joint laxity" is normal?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Dingo View Post
      Makes perfect sense to me.
      My actual point might make far more sense than what you think my point is.
      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

      No island of sanity.

      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
      Answer: Medicine


      "We are all African."

      Comment


      • #48
        I would assume you are correct

        Pooka1

        I bet the incidence of scoliosis in the kids who try it and then quit it quickly for lack of the correct body type is the same as the general population.
        You are probably correct. I doubt that the risk for Scoliosis goes up measurably except for the most competitive, child atheletes. Sports probably don't have a negative impact on most kids. In fact they are probably beneficial when not taken to an extreme.

        Douglas Kiester thinks so.
        Last edited by Dingo; 06-25-2009, 11:28 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
          I agree. The loss of Fix is assuaged by the gain of Betty. But we are still in need of a reasonable chiro again.

          We need rational folks who can talk about alternative treatments in PERSPECTIVE. They are not so common as can readily been seen.
          How about someone from here:

          http://www.chiroevidence.com/
          Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
          Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Dingo View Post
            You are probably correct. I doubt that the risk for Scoliosis goes up measurably except for the most competitive, child athletes.
            Let me take another swing here.

            I am suggesting that the population of kids who stick with these sports because they do well in them are the kids with "general joint laxity." They have a huge advantage over normal kids and so stay with the sport OUT OF PROPORTION with their numbers in the general population.

            They self-select. These kids who stay have a higher incidence of "general joint laxity" GOING IN, at the STARTING GATE. Saying the sport caused the "general joint laxity" is to miss what is actually going on as that is not normal and we KNOW it is associated with certain connective tissue disorders.

            Let me give you an example... Michael Phelps, the most decorated Olympic athlete of all time. He has several characteristics of Marfans and indeed has his heart valves and aorta checked every year just like my girls who have less characteristics of Marfan's than he seems to have. His arm span is several inches longer than his height, he might have over-extendable elbows, and he has a long waterline so to speak. These confer an advantage on him in swimming as we have seen.

            Now did his swim training produce these advantageous characteristics or did he stay with the sport because he was beating the pants off the other competitors at least in part due to his physical advantages?

            Is that clearer?
            Last edited by Pooka1; 06-25-2009, 04:41 PM.
            Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

            No island of sanity.

            Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
            Answer: Medicine


            "We are all African."

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
              How about someone from here:

              http://www.chiroevidence.com/
              Wow that looks promising!

              I hope they tackle the problem of "subluxations" and how no two chiros can look at a radiograph and agree on where they are.
              Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

              No island of sanity.

              Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
              Answer: Medicine


              "We are all African."

              Comment


              • #52
                self selection

                Pooka1
                They self-select.
                I find your horse "theory" that started this thread fascinating.
                I find your self selection theory equally fascinating.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
                  Not so much attracted to but do well in and therefore stick around to be counted.

                  I bet the incidence of scoliosis in the kids who try it and then quit it quickly for lack of the correct body type is the same as the general population.

                  Perhaps you think "general joint laxity" is normal?

                  In fact, "generalized joint laxity" IS a normal phenominon

                  People's connective tissue varies a great deal in terms of proportion of stiffer connective tissue to more elastic connective tissues.

                  On the stiffer end, are the kids with tissues that feel tight and stiff. They often complain that they feel stiff after exercise.

                  On the loose end are the people that can do party tricks with their shoulders and contort themselves through tennis raquets.

                  These are all variations of normal.

                  It does make sense that people on the looser end of the spectrum may have greater problems with scoliosis, as they have have less passive resistance to joint motion, and actually need to rely on muscle support more to control joint position.

                  Since more flexible people are desirable in gymnastics and ballet, these people probably are more likely to go farther in these sports.

                  So maybe Dinga and Pooka1 are both right. What the heck?

                  B.
                  Bettina:
                  - 34 year old physiotherapist
                  - main curve of 3 is mid-thoracic convex, approx 37 d.
                  - my goal: to stay as upright, strong and painfree as I can, as long as I can.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by betty14
                    In fact, "generalized joint laxity" IS a normal phenomenon!
                    Then why is it a diagnostic characteristic of certain connective tissue DISORDERS?
                    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                    No island of sanity.

                    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                    Answer: Medicine


                    "We are all African."

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by betty14 View Post
                      Since more flexible people are desirable in gymnastics and ballet, these people probably are more likely to go farther in these sports.

                      So maybe Dinga and Pooka1 are both right. What the heck?

                      B.
                      That's what I'm saying!

                      It is beyond obvious that certain body types and characteristics confer an advantage on certain folks in certain sports and activities. See Michael Phelps example. It stands to reason that the folks who are edging into the ABnormal end of the spectrum are going to have more advantage in certain activities.

                      The population that end up staying in a particular activity tend to be the folks who excel in it and is DISsimilar to the general population.

                      I don't see how anyone can argue with that.
                      Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                      No island of sanity.

                      Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                      Answer: Medicine


                      "We are all African."

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Pooka1 View Post
                        Then why is it a diagnostic characteristic of certain connective tissue DISORDERS?
                        It may be A charateristic of certain disorders, but not the ONLY characteristic.

                        Also, I suspect there may be histologic differences in the tissues defined as "normal" lax and "abnormal" lax. That's just an educated guess however.
                        Bettina:
                        - 34 year old physiotherapist
                        - main curve of 3 is mid-thoracic convex, approx 37 d.
                        - my goal: to stay as upright, strong and painfree as I can, as long as I can.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Joint hypermobility aka generalized joint laxity

                          Wiki: Joint hypermobility aka generalized joint laxity

                          Causes:
                          Gymnasts and athletes can sometimes acquire hypermobility in at least some of their joints through the exercises they do in training.
                          Last edited by Dingo; 06-26-2009, 12:04 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            You may all know this already, but the collagen and elastin of people with scoliosis is different than people without scoliosis.
                            Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
                            Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I didnt know that Linda, but find it interesting. Why? is that? I am probably showing my lack of understanding here but I am genuine.

                              Regards
                              Lorraine.
                              Operated on in 1966, harrington rods inserted from T4 to L3, here in Australia. Fusion of the said vertebrae as well. Problems for the last 14 years with pain.
                              Something I feel deeply,"Life is like money,you can spend it anyway you wish, but can only spend it once.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Dishonest Dingo

                                Originally posted by Dingo View Post
                                You take the one speculative sentence (without a reference) out of a page that is 99.99999% about disorders and think you made some point?

                                You continue to show an inability approach the literature in a credible and honest fashion. Get a grip.
                                Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                                No island of sanity.

                                Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                                Answer: Medicine


                                "We are all African."

                                Comment

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