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Thread: Muscles move the joints, don't they???

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    What is it in your opinion and what is the evidence apart from the claims that it is "dynamic?" What EXACTLY makes Spinecor a dynamic brace other than it is not a hard brace? It seems like "dynamic" means loose enough so that you can move around a little but are restricted enough to make folks think the brace is doing something..
    No, dynamic does not mean:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    loose enough so that you can move around a little but are restricted enough to make folks think the brace is doing something..
    It sounds as though you really do not know the purported mechanism of action of dynamic bracing. All you would need to do is check the manufacturer's website, and also read some studies or acticles. I thought you did this exhaustively already???

    All I'm saying is, while you have sufficient knowledge to tell others about study results that you are aware of, you have insuffiecient knowledge to claim that the entire premise is faulty, since you clearly do not understand the premise.

    And the scientific term for me is Betty14, in case you wondered!
    Bettina:
    - 34 year old physiotherapist
    - main curve of 3 is mid-thoracic convex, approx 37 d.
    - my goal: to stay as upright, strong and painfree as I can, as long as I can.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by betty14 View Post
    No, dynamic does not mean:

    It sounds as though you really do not know the purported mechanism of action of dynamic bracing. All you would need to do is check the manufacturer's website, and also read some studies or acticles. I thought you did this exhaustively already???

    All I'm saying is, while you have sufficient knowledge to tell others about study results that you are aware of, you have insuffiecient knowledge to claim that the entire premise is faulty, since you clearly do not understand the premise.
    Okay instead of continually telling me what dynamic bracing is NOT could you please tell me the scientific definition of "dynamic bracing?" I am not interested in corporate claims.

    And I want to know the mechanism and the actual difference. You could have every term coined in the world but if the actual difference is you can move around a little more in one brace versus the other then that's the point, yes?

    And by the way, we have building empirical evidence that the claim is faulty.

    If we can have a field like chiropractic that gives out "Doctor" titles that is based on something call "subluxations" yet no two chiros can agree on exactly where the subluxation is on a radiograph, then I don't think that bodes well for scientific claims in the PT field where they aren't even trying to hand out "Doctor" titles.

    And the scientific term for me is Betty14, in case you wondered!
    I was wondering what the correct term was!
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #108
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    Smile

    Betty-

    I scrolled through most of this quickly hoping that I would have found something more specific on exercises- if I missed it please forgive me.

    I would like to know what you mean by exercises in elongated positions. Everything you are saying about exercise and strengthening makes sense to me and while I'm rehabing two rotator cuff surgery shoulders I'd like to work a little on my back again... Currently I am doing side planks (right arm down raising right back off the ground my scoliosis is a "C" in the lumbar looking at me from the back). I can flex my left obliques to look straighter but as you stated previously I'm not strong enough to keep it up throughout the day.

    Also, do you have any experience or knowledge of shoulder blades interfering with the ribcage due to scoliosis? After my shoulder surgery if I try to keep my shoulder blades in and down (in their proper position) I find that at times I can feel them "catch" on my rib cage- so far no one has heard of this or can tell me why- only my PT believes me when I mention it because he can feel and hear it while we stretch.

    On another note... (not directed at anyone really)
    Overall if something worked perfectly to "cure" scoliosis nobody would be debating it anymore and the person that discovered it would be rich.

    To me, if I can lessen my pain and lessen the appearance of my curve I could really care less what it measures to be in an xray. If I live long and healthy with no more pain and my lower disc degeneration stops because of a healthy spine and no one can really tell I have scoli without an x-ray what does it matter if the measurement still says 30 degrees? Even if it requires me to stay active in my exercises and stretches- what harm does that really do? I think most people can use more exercise in their lives this just gives me more of a reason to do it. I'm more upset about the pain and appearance than anything else- solve that for me and I'm a happy camper.

  4. #109
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    Hi trcylynn:
    I replied to you yesterday, but don't know what happened. Perhaps it was deleted by someone? In any case, I'll try again...

    Quote Originally Posted by trcylynn View Post
    Betty-I would like to know what you mean by exercises in elongated positions. Everything you are saying about exercise and strengthening makes sense to me and while I'm rehabing two rotator cuff surgery shoulders I'd like to work a little on my back again... Currently I am doing side planks (right arm down raising right back off the ground my scoliosis is a "C" in the lumbar looking at me from the back). I can flex my left obliques to look straighter but as you stated previously I'm not strong enough to keep it up throughout the day.
    Elongated mean getting your spine as straight and tall as you can before exercising. A scoliotic spine is shortened because of the rotation and side bending, and if you exercise in that position, you're not really doing much to change your posture. If I don't do my exercises for a few days, or slouch lazily for a long time (like a long car ride), my spine gets crooked and I get deep skin creases across my back. If I do my exercises regularly, with the focus on making my muscles support my spine to make me taller and untwisted, then I can maintain a back that is straight enough that few people would notice that I have scoliosis.

    I'm very surprised that you do side planks given two cuff surgeries and scoliosis, as it is an extremely hard exercise. I would wonder if it would be too difficult to control all those body parts at once, and if it's not done precisely enough, there would be no positive postural effect on the spine. There are tons of variations to work the spine muscles that don't require such shoulder load at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by trcylynn View Post
    Also, do you have any experience or knowledge of shoulder blades interfering with the ribcage due to scoliosis? After my shoulder surgery if I try to keep my shoulder blades in and down (in their proper position) I find that at times I can feel them "catch" on my rib cage- so far no one has heard of this or can tell me why- only my PT believes me when I mention it because he can feel and hear it while we stretch.
    There must be a mechanical reason for that. The blades can never sit perfectly on a deformed ribcage, unfortunately. I suspect that you may have some adhesions in and around your myofascial tissues (ie. scarred bits in the muscles and connetive tissues) that lie between the blade and ribcage.

    Quote Originally Posted by trcylynn View Post
    To me, if I can lessen my pain and lessen the appearance of my curve I could really care less what it measures to be in an xray. If I live long and healthy with no more pain and my lower disc degeneration stops because of a healthy spine and no one can really tell I have scoli without an x-ray what does it matter if the measurement still says 30 degrees? Even if it requires me to stay active in my exercises and stretches- what harm does that really do? I think most people can use more exercise in their lives this just gives me more of a reason to do it. I'm more upset about the pain and appearance than anything else- solve that for me and I'm a happy camper.
    I could not agree more. Taking charge of your health is so important. Hope my answer helps somewhat..

    Cheers, B.
    Bettina:
    - 34 year old physiotherapist
    - main curve of 3 is mid-thoracic convex, approx 37 d.
    - my goal: to stay as upright, strong and painfree as I can, as long as I can.

  5. #110
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    Betty, I just want to thank you for your posts. I find them very interesting.

  6. #111
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    PT Helps

    I would like to vouch for the PT exercise program - I have a 49 degree curve and my Dr. is not for surgery due to negative long-term outcome studies, and I started a PT program (core, de-rotation, flexibility) that has helped me feel better and it also stabilized my spine in a 6-mos. follow-up x-ay. My current question is about heel lifts and whether or not they help or are detrimental... see Heel Lift thread. Anyway, I'm all for a routine I can do at home that won't keep draining my wallet. Thanks!

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by dailystrength View Post
    my Dr. is not for surgery due to negative long-term outcome studies
    Is your Dr. an SRS spine specialist? Is he using long-term outcome studies from several years ago when Harrington rods were used? I saw a Neurosurgeon first and he told me that there was only a 60% chance of a positive outcome. When I saw Dr. Rand, an SRS spine Ortho/Neuro Surgeon, he told me he has better than a 92% positive outcome. Also, the Neurosurgeon I had seen admitted to me that indeed, Dr. Rand has better than a 92% positive outcome.
    Sally
    Diagnosed with severe lumbar scoliosis at age 65.
    Posterior Fusion L2-S1 on 12/4/2007. age 67
    Anterior Fusion L3-L4,L4-L5,L5-S1 on 12/19/2007
    Additional bone removed to decompress right side of L3-L4 & L4-L5 on 4/19/2010
    New England Baptist Hospital, Boston, MA
    Dr. Frank F. Rands735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/butterflyfive/

    "In God We Trust" Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God. Painful moments, trust God. Every moment, thank God.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by dailystrength View Post
    I would like to vouch for the PT exercise program - I have a 49 degree curve and my Dr. is not for surgery due to negative long-term outcome studies, and I started a PT program (core, de-rotation, flexibility) that has helped me feel better and it also stabilized my spine in a 6-mos. follow-up x-ay. My current question is about heel lifts and whether or not they help or are detrimental... see Heel Lift thread. Anyway, I'm all for a routine I can do at home that won't keep draining my wallet. Thanks!
    Hi dailystrength:

    Here's what me collegue, a PT and certified pedorthist, has to say about heel lifts:

    In general, one has to be very careful with lifts, because the response of the body could be very different than anticipated. A new pain could be created, or existing pain may become worse. She does them rarely, for example if a leg has become apparently shortened because it can no longer straighten all the way, or if a person cannot achieve active correction of their poor lumbo-pelvic / lower extremity alignment. She monitors closely the responses to different things tried, and recommends that you don't do other new things at the same time. Never leave a lift in if it starts to cause problems.

    Cheers, B.
    Bettina:
    - 34 year old physiotherapist
    - main curve of 3 is mid-thoracic convex, approx 37 d.
    - my goal: to stay as upright, strong and painfree as I can, as long as I can.

  9. #114
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    Bettina, Thank you so much for this answer!

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by loves to skate View Post
    Is your Dr. an SRS spine specialist? Is he using long-term outcome studies from several years ago when Harrington rods were used? I saw a Neurosurgeon first and he told me that there was only a 60% chance of a positive outcome. When I saw Dr. Rand, an SRS spine Ortho/Neuro Surgeon, he told me he has better than a 92% positive outcome. Also, the Neurosurgeon I had seen admitted to me that indeed, Dr. Rand has better than a 92% positive outcome.
    Sally
    Thanks for your reply, Sally. Yes, my Dr. is on the SRS list- I looked it up last evening, and furthermore he is the Head of the surgical divsion, so I'm thinking a second opinion would be worthless. He says this based on a 50-year follow up of surgical vs. non-surgical patients and their level of pain. So, I thought if I wait until my next x-ray next May, and all the PT/yoga/etc. has not alleviated the pain/dysfunction, then maybe he'll recommend it then. I can still function fine, I just have to take many breaks while cleaning, etc. Don't know if surgery would make me worse or better off... I guess I just want to explore all options. It's all so very "individual", it's hard to know what's right for any one person. And you are right; he could be using follow up from the "old days' of surgery. But aren't Harrington rods still used? By the way I am so impressed with your experience w/Dr. Rand.
    Last edited by dailystrength; 07-23-2009 at 11:55 AM.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by dailystrength View Post
    But aren't Harrington rods still used?
    Not for years as far as I know.

    Linda would know the exact years.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #117
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    In the U.S., Harrington rods are used only rarely, since the early 90's.

    --Lin

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by dailystrength View Post
    Thanks for your reply, Sally. Yes, my Dr. is on the SRS list- I looked it up last evening, and furthermore he is the Head of the surgical divsion, so I'm thinking a second opinion would be worthless.
    I'm not so sure that a second opinion would be worthless. Just because a Dr. is the head of a surgical division doesn't mean that he is the best. It just means that he was willing to take on the extra work involved with being the head of the division.
    Sally
    Diagnosed with severe lumbar scoliosis at age 65.
    Posterior Fusion L2-S1 on 12/4/2007. age 67
    Anterior Fusion L3-L4,L4-L5,L5-S1 on 12/19/2007
    Additional bone removed to decompress right side of L3-L4 & L4-L5 on 4/19/2010
    New England Baptist Hospital, Boston, MA
    Dr. Frank F. Rands735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/butterflyfive/

    "In God We Trust" Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God. Painful moments, trust God. Every moment, thank God.

  14. #119
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    Interesting, Sally -- thank you.

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