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Thread: Torso Rotation Strength Training for Scoliosis

  1. #646
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    Gastric bypass alters gut bacteria leading to weight loss

    Torso rotation strength training was initially thought to work because it corrected a strength asymmetry. This concept made a lot of sense but further research found that all children have a strength asymmetry, not just those with Scoliosis. The upshot is that TRS probably works for a different reason that isn't yet clear.

    In the world of biology that's just another day at the office. Scientists find treatments that work, but quite often they don't know why they work. Sometimes the most obvious explanations turn out to be wrong.

    Case in point: After weight-loss surgery, new gut bacteria keep obesity away

    The logic behind weight-loss surgery seems simple: rearrange the digestive tract so the stomach can hold less food and the food bypasses part of the small intestine, allowing fewer of a meal's calories to be absorbed. Bye-bye, obesity. A study of lab mice, published on Wednesday, begs to differ. It concludes that one of the most common and effective forms of bariatric surgery, called Roux-en-Y gastric bypass, melts away pounds not - or not only - by re-routing the digestive tract, as long thought, but by changing the bacteria in the gut. Or, in non-scientific terms, the surgery somehow replaces fattening microbes with slimming ones.
    For many obese patients, particularly those with type 2 diabetes, gastric bypass has succeeded where nothing else has. Severely obese patients routinely lose 65 to 75 percent of their excess weight and fat after the operation, studies show, and leave their diabetes behind. Oddly, however, the diabetes remission often occurs before significant weight loss. That has made bypass surgeons and weight-loss experts suspect that Roux-en-Y changes not only anatomy but also metabolism or the endocrine system. In other words, the surgery does something besides re-plumb the gut. That "something," according to previous studies, includes altering the mix of trillions of microbes in the digestive tract. Not only are the "gut microbiota" different in lean people and obese people, but the mix of microbes changes after an obese patient undergoes gastric bypass and becomes more like the microbiota in lean people.
    This kind of discovery not only helps to explain why over 35% of American adults are obese but it will lead to safer, less invasive ways to treat it.

    So the question is why does torso rotation work? Nobody really knows why a simple exercise could be so effective but the fact that it helps gives scientists a clue as to why roughly 3% of children around the world suffer from Scoliosis.
    Last edited by Dingo; 03-28-2013 at 11:09 AM.

  2. #647
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    Hi Dingo, nice to read your good reflexions again.
    Certainly is difficult to know what have to do with scoliosis and what not. And is really incredible what bacterias may do.. it seems to be the cause of a frightening spine disease as ANKYLOSING SPONDYLITIS (may provokes spinal fusion) http://www.kickas.org/medical/11.shtml so, why cannot be one of the IS causes at least in some cases? Raindrop Therapy http://www.iridology1.com/rain-drop-therapy.html seems to be a good idea.

    About Torso Rotation, I suppose it provokes some benefical change in the static (or pasive) structure. I wish to know if it changes the length or consistence of the Multifidus or other muscle involved in rotation or some ligament.. or do some change in joints, fascias.. But why we must to suppose what may be or not? We live in the 21st Century.. why not to use Mri or something similar to know what exactly kind of change is doing? Or that study was already done? How many things I donít know..

  3. #648
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    Hi flerc great to hear from you!

    It's certainly possible that torso rotation helps because it alters something physical. But it could just as easily help because it corrects something in the nervous system or brain. People smarter than me could probably think of a dozen logical hypothesis.

    I'm just happy that it was discovered at all. 8-)

    I believe it's helped Scott maintain his curve at around 20 degrees. I'll find out at his next checkup in October.

    If it's working I hope it keeps working. I'm crossing my fingers.
    Last edited by Dingo; 03-30-2013 at 01:36 AM.

  4. #649
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    Yes Dingo, it seems that medicine knowledge is very little to know what exercises may do or not and why.
    Until around 8 months ago I had an intolearable pain in the talon, it was almost impossible for me to walk, i was literally gimpy for around a month. I’m absolutely sure I had plantar fasciitis although I didn’t see any physician, because I had all the symptoms. Of course the traditional western medicine only has a surgical option for this and I read is a bad solution, so I was thinking in visit a “chiropractor” of my country who definitively cured my mother for a much more frightening pain, but firstly I decided to trust in myself so I did every kind of movements and contortions until some particular ‘exercise’ freed my pain until now. I hope it will never come back again.
    Before doing it, I have tried with some exercises I have read in Internet, but all of those were absolutely useless for me. I believe they probably helped others, but not me.
    So surely Torso Rotation is the kind of exercise that Scott needs to fight against the curve. I hope that.

  5. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post

    I believe it's helped Scott maintain his curve at around 20 degrees. I'll find out at his next checkup in October.

    If it's working I hope it keeps working. I'm crossing my fingers.


    I'm so happy to hear that Scott is doing so well with his torso rotation exercises.

    It would be wonderful if this could turn into a standard treatment at some point in the future with more study.

    Keep up the good work! :-)

  6. #651
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    Scott 2013 update

    Scott update

    We just got back from Scott's yearly appointment and his curve improved by 1 degree since last year.

    These are his results so far.
    2008 - Age 5 - 11 degrees
    2009 - Age 6 - 14 degrees (or thereabouts)
    2010 - Age 7 - 18.6 degrees (Torso Rotation and computer measurements began here)
    2011 - Age 8 - 20.2 degrees
    2012 - Age 9 - 20.0 degrees
    2013 - Age 10 - 19.0 degrees (9am this morning)

    To see photos of his machine and a description of the exercise that he does follow this link.
    Torso Rotation Therapy - How Scott is doing update

  7. #652
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    It is great to hear this update! Good job Dingo and Scott! You are doing the "impossible". Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing this.
    "The most deadly action you can take is to internalize someone else's negativity, for once you start to believe it, youíre sunk."

  8. #653
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    Gabi's 2014 update

    Hi All,

    This morning was Gabi's ortho appointment. This was a specially crucial visit, given that during our last visit (in January 2014) her ortho claimed that her curve was progressing despite TR. My husband and I, who check her spine every day, disagreed, and attributed the increase to postural reasons during the X-rays (there's a +/- 5 degree error margin, and to a lay person like me, it was clear that she was slouching just by looking at the position of her jaw). In January 2014, her ortho increased her curve from 20 to 25 degrees, and prescribed a night brace. We declined, and agreed to wait and see how her curve progressed (if at all) until her next visit before we braced her. I decided not to seek a second opinion, as I wanted to avoid unnecessary radiation, and no worsening was apparent to my husband or I.

    As additional background:
    1) Gabi went from Risser 0 to 4 in a 6-month time period. She has grown 3 inches during that time.
    2) From Sep 2013 to January 2014 we had removed 1 bolster seat from her MedX TR machine, since she was taller and she didn't seem to need the extra cushioning.
    3) By January 2014, Gabi had plateaued a few times and, at the advice of one of the professionals who assisted Dr. Mooney in his study, we dropped the weight and increased the number of reps from 20-25 before progressing.
    4) However, in light of the purported increase in her curvature in January 2014, I substantially changed her TRX routine: We continued to slowly increase the weight (even if she could only do 1 or 2 more reps each day), and proceeded to add a second set of reps at a lower weight, to complete at least 25 reps combined total. We also had her seat on the 2 bolster cushions again, as when she first started her TR routine back in March 2013.

    Today Gabi's ortho measured her curve at 24 degrees. My husband and I think that it's the same it's always been, at least to the naked eye. Her ortho confirmed that her curve is stable, and that the chances of her having to be braced or reach surgical level are minimal. She has reached Risser 4, but is still pre menarche. However, her remaining growth will be at a much slower rate, therefore not as dangerous. The ortho removed the brace prescription, and told us that Gabi would only need to be monitored every 6 months (as opposed to every 4) moving forward. I have no doubt that the stability of her curve is due to the TR exercises. If there was any worsening at any point (which, again, I dispute), it may have been due to us removing one of the bolsters of the TRX equipment or to her plateauing.

    I also mentioned in previous posts that I am mirroring Gabi's TR routine (MedX TR and VARC), and, to date, my spine is substantially straighter, the best it's ever been. I have no pain or discomfort. Gabi and I will continue our TR exercises for as long as we are physically able to.

  9. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kauai View Post
    Today Gabi's ortho measured her curve at 24 degrees. My husband and I think that it's the same it's always been, at least to the naked eye.
    I doubt anyone, even a surgeon, could eyeball a true few degree increase. You might get that differential just from morning until evening (curves tend to increase a bit over the day).

    I bet your daughter's curve has never moved past 25*. The original measurement of 20* may be real or just may be because she wasn't as square to the beam as the later shots. As I once tried to explain to Tom, the largest lateral curve will be observed when you are exactly square to the beam and lower apparent measurements will occur if you are not square to the beam. Hence it is impossible to over-estimate a curve (and be recommended for surgery incorrectly) but not impossible to underestimate it (by not standing square to the beam, measuring first thing in the morning, etc.).

    It sounds like your daughter is out of the woods. Most small curves don't progress. Or it could be the TR. Who knows. We will never know.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Scott update

    We just got back from Scott's yearly appointment and his curve improved by 1 degree since last year.

    These are his results so far.
    2008 - Age 5 - 11 degrees
    2009 - Age 6 - 14 degrees (or thereabouts)
    2010 - Age 7 - 18.6 degrees (Torso Rotation and computer measurements began here)
    2011 - Age 8 - 20.2 degrees
    2012 - Age 9 - 20.0 degrees
    2013 - Age 10 - 19.0 degrees (9am this morning)

    To see photos of his machine and a description of the exercise that he does follow this link.
    Torso Rotation Therapy - How Scott is doing update

    I haven't been on this forum for over a year. That is great news about Scott! My daughter's situation has similar results so I wanted to share.

    Here are her numbers:

    5/2010--T13 L20 (diagnosed with scoliosis)


    12/2010--T21 L27--four months later: progression; sought second opinion re: treatment. Diagnosed with "progressive scoliosis"
    (decided against bracing as recommended by original ortho doc and started TR and RC)

    *Menarche at the end of the month!

    Declared "stable" at all future visits while growing three inches:

    4/11--T20 L24
    8/11 T19 L24
    12/11 T19 L27
    6/2012 T20 L27
    2/2013 T21 L32
    8/14 T22 L30

    We feel she would've most definitely progressed further had we not done the TR and RC!
    Daughter dx'd 3/10 at age 11: T13 L21
    Progressed to T21 L27 in 12/10
    Initiated TRS and nightly melatonin in 1/11
    "Stable" at T20 L24 since 4/11

  11. #656
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    looking for more families using this type of targeted PT

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna's mom View Post
    I haven't been on this forum for over a year. That is great news about Scott! My daughter's situation has similar results so I wanted to share.

    Here are her numbers:

    5/2010--T13 L20 (diagnosed with scoliosis)


    12/2010--T21 L27--four months later: progression; sought second opinion re: treatment. Diagnosed with "progressive scoliosis"
    (decided against bracing as recommended by original ortho doc and started TR and RC)

    *Menarche at the end of the month!

    Declared "stable" at all future visits while growing three inches:

    4/11--T20 L24
    8/11 T19 L24
    12/11 T19 L27
    6/2012 T20 L27
    2/2013 T21 L32
    8/14 T22 L30

    We feel she would've most definitely progressed further had we not done the TR and RC!
    Hi Anna's Mom,
    My daughter loves science and has put together a project that is close to her heart, but very ambitious. Would you consider talking with her about your daughter's scoliosis progress and exercise program? Her target is to locate 20 participants for her school projects.
    Thank you.
    A Mom

    Hi!

    You donít know me, but I am a 14yro girl with Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis (AIS.) I have used Targeted Physical Therapy for over two years and would like to find out what happened to other girls who did these two exercises. I have school permission to use Targeted PT as the topic of my science project, however, I NEED YOUR HELP! I need to find a lot of girls who are using a MedX CTR & Roman Chair or a Cybex CTR & Roman Chair while they are growing. If you would be okay sharing some info about your daughter's curve from her x-rays, (like curve size, left or right curve, and how many inches she grew) please contact me.

    ***School rules say she can only participate if you and your daughter sign an Informed Consent Form.***

    I am looking for 10-16 year old girls who have AIS curves under 40 degrees, are currently growing, AND are using Targeted Physical Therapy 1 to 3 times per week. If you or your daughter have questions or would like to be a part of my project, please include ďAISĒ in the subject line when you email me at katnisskern@yahoo.com .

    The purpose of my experiment is to find out if weekly Targeted Physical Therapy will alter the Natural History of AIS during a growth spurt so I will be comparing our data to girls whose treatment was watchful waiting.

    Please tell other Scoli Families about my project!

    Thank you for reading my letter.

    Rhea


  12. #657
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    It would be also great, a Project with the purpose of understanding what kind of change this machine does in the body. Mri is used to understand this kind of changes. Why nobody is interested in knowing if TRM get more strength or more flexibility in muscles or ligaments or fascias? Why is this a mystery with the technology available today?

  13. #658
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    Hi Again

    Its been a long time since I have written about my daughter, Nalina.
    She was diaged last sept(2013) with curves of 38 top and 33 bottom.
    In my search for what do I ran across Dingo's articles about Torso Rotation.

    Some of you may have been following my course of action, so I won't go into too many details here.
    In brief:
    First we talked with two doctors, one of which wanted us to do the 24 hr brace and the other advocated the night time brace.
    We went with the night time brace along with TR at a local gym, with Roman Chair and a few other exercises.

    At her first visit back to the doctor in Feb 2014, her curves had decreased to 28 top and 25 bottom.

    I was trying to buy a TR machine but found nothing local and trying to purchase a used one long distance turned out to be too frustrating so we kept using the
    local Gym machine while I made plans and built a machine myself. I am pretty good at metal work and this machine turned out pretty good.
    (even I use it often and it has helped me with back issues I have had from my old power lifting days years ago)

    Then in May 2014 she went back in for more Xrays and she had 29 top and 32 bottom. I was a bit frustrated with this because when I measure the
    curves using the marks on the Xrays the lower curve penciled out to be about 26 to me. I realize there is a 5 degree margin of error so I didnt get too upset about it.

    Fast Forward to today, she had another Xray and I am please to say that she is now at 27 top and 28 bottom.

    So, Is it the TR or the Brace, or the other exercises or a combination of all of them.

    I dont know the answer to this, but I know for sure we will be continuing on with this regimen until she is done growing.
    All the arguments against TR will never change my mind about has it helped or not. I believe it does work, even though I have no idea why.

    Nalina is a small girl, and has only grown about an inch in the last few months, she is 4'9" and now weighs (only) 64 lbs.

    I will try not to stay away from the forum so long next time, but to be honest I got so frustrated with being so involved with trying to find a cure
    that I was going nuts with it. I had to take some time off.

    I really appreciate all the information you all have shared here on this forum, it has helped us immensely and I will report back on our next visit
    or if anything else pops up.

    thanks again

    Fahsai (Tim)

  14. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAHSAI View Post
    She was diaged last sept(2013) with curves of 38 top and 33 bottom.

    Fast Forward to today, she had another Xray and I am please to say that she is now at 27 top and 28 bottom.
    That is excellent! Congratulations to her and your family on this.

    So, Is it the TR or the Brace, or the other exercises or a combination of all of them.
    The decrease is the TR, not the brace. Braces do not claim to reduce curves but only to try to prevent further progression.

    Dingo posts his son's measurements every September/October. He has not done so yet this year. I hope his son is okay.

    Again, congratulations!
    Last edited by Pooka1; 10-01-2014 at 06:44 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #660
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    Indeed, congratulations!

    It is so nice that your determination and hard work (and Nalinaís) are paying off. My best wishes for continued success!!
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

    http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

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