Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 119

Thread: Scioliosis is caused by infectious disease

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,058

    You are correct

    PNUTTRO

    You are correct, the "I" means that the trigger is presently unknown.

    We have a fair disagreement, there is no reason to get testy.

    You believe that Scoliosis is heredity and I believe it's environment which probably means infection. Let's give this some time and see how the research plays out.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-28-2009 at 09:30 PM.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    7,006
    Estrogen receptor polymorphysm, estrogen content and idipopathic scolisosis in human: A possible genetic linkage.
    Esposito T, Uccello R, Caliendo R, Di Martino GF, Carnevale UA, Cuomo S, Ronca D, Varriale B.

    Lab. of Molecular Genetics, Department of Experimental Medicine, Faculty of Medicine and Surgery, Second University of Naples, Via Costantinopoli, 16 80138, Naples, Italy.

    Idiopathic Scoliosis (IS) is a largely diffused disease in human population but its pathogenesis is still unknown. There is a relationship between scoliotic phenotype and the patient age, since in the early stage the pathology shows a ratio of 50% between male and female teenagers. During puberty the sex ratio is 8,4/1 (female/male), suggesting a sex-conditioned manifestation of the disease. Genetic inheritance of idiopathic scoliosis is still unclear although some authors claim for its X-linked dominant inheritance. There is large agreement in considering the IS as a sex-conditioned disease, in terms of steroid content and their receptor activity, although no evidence have been found yet. The blood content of 17beta-estradiol in teenagers with IS shows lower levels than teenagers of the same age without IS. Also testosterone and progesterone content are lower in IS girls with respect to control girls. Furthermore, we extracted DNA from white blood cells of IS patients and their relatives until the third generation in order to examine estrogen receptor alpha polymorphisms, considering this tool a plausible molecular marker for IS prognosis. In this respect, we identified four polymorphisms in the exons encoding for the steroid binding domain and two other in the trans-activation domain. Our results show a clear relationship with clinical manifestation of IS.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,058

    It's certainly possible

    LindaRacine

    Results. The frequency of CC genotype of the exon ěK (in reality 5′ UTR OK-1)was significantly higher in patients than that in controls (P < 0.05). The C alleles appeared to be overrepresented in patients compared with controls (P < 0.05). Furthermore, the frequencies of CC genotypes in female patients whose height was ≥160 cm and Cobb angle was ≥30░ were higher than those whose height was <160 cm and Cobb angle was <30░ (P < 0.05).

    Conclusion. The sites of the exon ěK polymorphisms of estrogen receptor β gene may be associated with a susceptibility of AIS. Furthermore, the sites of the exon ěK polymorphism may be associated with the height and the curve severity of patients.
    It's certainly possible that scientists have discovered a susceptability gene for Scoliosis. In theory these genes could exist for every disease regardless of the cause.

    However, I should note that nearly all of these are false positives.

    Exhibit A
    Analysis finds many genes tied to cancer don’t raise risk of getting it

    They found that, out of 240 associations between a specific mutation and a cancer, only two genes involved in DNA repair and tied to lung cancer — XRCC1 and ERCC2 — turned out to be strong candidates for such a link.
    Exhibit B
    Gene-Hunters Find Hope and Hurdles in Schizophrenia Studies

    The search for common variants in schizophrenia, however, has not been very successful so far, though not for want of trying. There have been more than a thousand studies, implicating 3,608 genetic variants.

    But when all the data are pooled, only 24 of those variants turn out to be statistically significant, according to an analysis in the current issue of Nature Genetics by a group led by Dr. Lars Bertram of Massachusetts General Hospital.
    I should also note that infectious disease is heavily influenced by susceptability genes.

    Disease 1 Gene
    Gene Discovered For Type 1 Diabetes In Children

    Pediatrics researchers at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and McGill University in Montreal have identified a gene variant that raises a child's risk for type 1 diabetes, formerly called juvenile diabetes.
    Disease 1 Trigger
    Study suggests that Type 1 Diabetes is triggered by common Enterovirus

    It is accepted that children who develop type 1 diabetes inherit a genetic susceptibility to the disease, but studies of identical twins have shown that when one twin has the disease, the other twin will only have approximately a 40 per cent chance of developing diabetes – suggesting that factors additional to inheritance are also involved.
    It has revealed that more than 60 per cent of the organs contained evidence of enteroviral infection of the beta cells. By contrast, infected beta cells were hardly ever seen in tissue samples from 50 children without the condition.
    Disease 2 Gene
    Leprosy Susceptibility Genes Identified

    An international research team lead by scientists from the Research Institute of the McGill University Health Centre (MUHC) discovered that small changes in certain genes, the Parkin 2 gene and its neighbor, PACRG, result in an increased susceptibility to leprosy.
    Disease 2 Trigger
    Leprosy is caused by a bacteria called Mycobacterium lepromatosis. Today it is easily cured with antibiotics.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-03-2009 at 12:45 AM.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,058

    Type 1 Diabetes

    LindaRacine

    Like Scoliosis many diseases hit one sex harder than the other. There is probably a different explanation for each disease.

    The mystery of MS and its prevalence in Canada

    Canada has one of the highest rates of multiple sclerosis in the world, according to an international survey.
    Canadian women are more than three times more likely to get multiple sclerosis than men, according to a major study published in November 2006. Among those born in the 1930s, about two women contracted MS for every one man, at a ratio of 1.9 to 1. For those born in the 1980s, the incidence has grown to exceed 3.2 cases for every one case among men.
    Glandular fever link offers hope of vaccine for MS

    A team from the University of Queensland has found the immune systems of people with MS are less effective at killing off EBV-infected cells. The weaker this ability, the younger the age at which MS tends to strike.

    The findings add weight to theories that EBV plays a role in triggering MS. Previous studies have shown that people who have never been infected with EBV do not develop MS, and a study last year found the brains of MS patients had abnormally high numbers of EBV-infected cells.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-03-2009 at 12:43 AM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    494
    Honestly, I am not trying to stir the pot or create disharmony in the village but I dont know exactly where everyone stands on this matter.

    Dingo makes a compelling case and I think I know where he stands and why.
    I am not sure where Pnuttro stands.

    Am I correct to assume that you both agree that scoliosis is not a single gene genetic disease?
    I'm pretty sure you have both said that.

    And, if that is the case, you both believe that SOME environmental factor has to come into play. Is that a true statement on the level of your agreement?

    Dingo thinks it highly likely that it is infectious disease and P thinks it is something else in the environment.

    I guess I'm confused because DIngo said to P above

    You believe that Scoliosis is heredity and I believe it's environment
    And I dont think I saw P say it was totally heredity. Would P say it could be an infectious disease but the evidence is not compelling enough? Or does P say, no way, the evidence points to 100% genetic?

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,058

    Genes and Scoliosis

    concerned dad

    Am I correct to assume that you both agree that scoliosis is not a single gene genetic disease?

    And, if that is the case, you both believe that SOME environmental factor has to come into play. Is that a true statement on the level of your agreement?
    In my opinion the evidence strongly suggests that genes may play some unknown role but heredity is not responsible for most cases of Scoliosis. The Danish twin study clearly indicates that in all likelihood Scoliosis is triggered by environmental input.

    Environmental input = Environmental damage

    The only environmental hazard that I can think of that has been around for thousands of years is a microbe. Although not proven it appears that Scoliosis is caused by pinpoint damage to the central nervous system. That sounds a lot like Type 1 Diabetes and is another potential indicator of infection. How else could millions of children share the same nervous system disorder if they don't share the same gene?

    I think I'm barely ahead of the curve on this one. It won't be long until scientists consider scoliosis an environmentally caused disease and not long after that an infectious disease.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-05-2009 at 05:05 PM.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned dad View Post
    And I dont think I saw P say it was totally heredity. Would P say it could be an infectious disease but the evidence is not compelling enough? Or does P say, no way, the evidence points to 100% genetic?

    P says that there is ZERO evidence of a pathogen cause for scoliosis. I believe that the causes are complex and that genetics has something to do with it. I also believe that one of the environmental factors is hormones, but I have ZERO evidence for that so I won't say that it IS A CAUSE.

    Dingo's "compelling case", as I understand it, is that scoliosis is not entirely genetics, so it must be a pathogen. I disagree.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,058

    hormones

    PNUTTRO

    I believe that the causes are complex and that genetics has something to do with it. I also believe that one of the environmental factors is hormones, but I have ZERO evidence for that so I won't say that it IS A CAUSE.
    If Scoliosis was triggered by normal hormone levels or some other natural, healthy phenomenon wouldn't you expect identical twin concordance to be a lot higher than 13%? I'm not saying that disqualifies your hypothesis but wouldn't you expect high MZ concordance?

    If Scoliosis was triggered by abnormal hormone levels it would mean that people with Scoliosis were ill and we'd need to find the cause of that illness.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-05-2009 at 05:44 PM.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9,257
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    PNUTTRO



    If Scoliosis was triggered by normal hormone levels or some other natural, healthy phenomenon wouldn't you expect MZ twin concordance to be a lot higher than 13%? I'm not saying that disqualifies your hypothesis but wouldn't you expect high MZ concordance?
    Why do you keep citing one study that has radically different conclusions that the majority of papers on this that say the concordance is much higher?

    It makes no sense whatsoever to believe the one aberrant result and not the great run of other results that tend to agree. Does that mean it is definitely wrong? No. But it is likely aberrant for some good reason not related to the actual facts. That's the way science tends to work... different method - maybe different results. It's why we have papers just comparing methods that are highly publishable and valuable, at least in my field.

    The most likely explanation for the outlier report that you cite is that they used a different approach and may also be GIGO (self reporting plus the known large differences in curves between MZ twins). You have no reason to think this one report is right and all the others that have a higher concordance are wrong OTHER THAN it fits your pet hypothesis. And that is a very bad way to conduct thought, not to mention science.

    Can you make an argument here that doesn't rest obligately on one aberrant report?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,058

    Danish twin study

    pooka1

    Can you make an argument here that doesn't rest obligately on one aberrant report?
    I happen to believe that the Danish twin study is probably the most accurate. However even if concordance was 5 times higher my opinion would be the same. MZ concordance for Leprosy is 60% and it's caused by infectious disease.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9,257
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    pooka1
    I happen to believe that the Danish twin study is probably the most accurate.
    Why? Based on what?

    In my field, one aberrant report usually traces to a different method. We know this one aberrant report used questionable methods so that is the likely explanation of the aberrant results, not that hey alone are on to a more correct explanation.

    However even if concordance was 5 times higher my opinion would be the same. MZ concordance for Leprosy is 60% and it's caused by infectious disease.
    That elegantly shows the extreme limitations in using twin studies to sort out genetic vice environment, the same limitations that should guide your view of that study.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,058

    Danish twin study

    Pooka1

    Why? Based on what?
    The Danish twin study used the Danish twin's registry as it's sample. To me that gives it credibility.

    The Danish Twin Registry is the oldest national twin register in the world, initiated in 1954 by ascertainment of twins born from 1870 to 1910. During a number of studies birth cohorts have been added to the register, and by the recent addition of birth cohorts from 1931 to 1952 the Registry now comprizes 127 birth cohorts of twins from 1870 to 1996, with a total of more than 65,000 twin pairs included. In all cohorts the ascertainment has been population-based and independent of the traits studied, although different procedures of ascertainment have been employed. In the oldest cohorts only twin pairs with both twins surviving to age 6 have been included while from 1931 all ascertained twins are included. The completeness of the ascertainment after adjustment for infant mortality is high, with approximately 90% ascertained up to 1968, and complete ascertainment of all liveborn twin pairs since 1968. The Danish Twin Registry is used as a source for large studies on genetic influence on aging and age-related health problems, normal variation in clinical parameters associated with the metabolic syndrome and cardiovascular diseases, and clinical studies of specific diseases. The combination of survey data with data obtained by linkage to national health related registers enables follow-up studies both of the general twin population and of twins from clinical studies.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-05-2009 at 05:56 PM.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9,257
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Pooka1



    The Danish twin study used the Danish twin's registry as it's sample. To me that gives it credibility.
    Do you understand my criticisms of that study? Do you dismiss every one of them? I haven't seen any argument you made against them.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,058

    twin studies

    Pooka1

    Twin studies aren't designed to explain how an illness works. However they do provide an important data point that gives scientists an idea where they should focus.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    9,257
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Pooka1

    Twin studies aren't designed to explain how an illness works. However they do provide an important data point that gives scientists an idea where they should focus.
    It's obvious why these twins studies are not suited for focusing future work in this area. The leprosy results alone and all by themselves show that.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •