Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 119

Thread: Scioliosis is caused by infectious disease

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,901

    Hypothetical scenarios

    Let's just see where this goes, shall we?

    Zigosity Concordance

    Entirely genetic and is dominant:
    MZ 100%
    DZ 100%

    Entirely genetic and recessive:
    MZ 0% or 100%
    DZ 0% or 12.5%

    Entirely environmental:
    MZ 0% - 100% and not expected to be different from DZ
    DZ 0% - 100% and not expected to be different from MZ

    Complex - environmental trigger coupled with recessive genetic susceptibility
    MZ higher than for DZ most but not all the time (because of the 0% above)
    DZ lower than for MZ most but not all the time (because of the 0% above)

    Complex - environmental trigger coupled with dominant genetic susceptibility
    MZ 0% - 100%
    DZ 0% - 100%

    Controlled entirely by gene copy number
    MZ 0% - 100%
    DZ 0% - 100%

    Now I am likely off on some of these numbers but it seems to me the power of these MZ/DZ twin studies is over-estimated and is only useful in a minority of situations. Only two of the above scenarios would be illuminated by twins studies. (None by self-reported twins studies.) And we don't know for sure which those are because we don't know what causes scoliosis.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 05-08-2009 at 06:36 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,901

    Some good ways to initally vet twin study results

    1. See if the ratio of MZ to DZ twins is in line with what we know about the general population.

    Until recently when IVF and such became more prevalent, the incidence of DZ and MZ was known and known to be fairly steady. IIRC, it was about 2/3 DZ and 1/3 MZ (I should check that). The Danish twins study should be vetted to see if that ratio is close to what it should be. Of course now this ratio is all over the place and likely not steady.

    2. Check that the incidence of scoliosis is about the same as in the general population. In the case of the Danish study, it is LOW by half to two-thirds. That signals a problem of under-reporting scoliosis in the study population. Because even MZ twins can differ greatly in their curves, this would seem to compromise the results per se.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    948

    High blood pressure and CMV infection

    Remember when scientists thought that high blood pressure was caused by an indecipherably complex interaction between heredity and lifestyle?

    Maybe not.

    Viral infection may trigger high blood pressure

    FRIDAY, May 15 (HealthDay News) -- A hidden viral infection that most adults harbor could be a cause of high blood pressure, animal studies indicate.

    Mice infected with cytomegalovirus (CMV) were more likely to develop not only high blood pressure but also the hardening of the arteries called atherosclerosis, according to a report in the May 15 issue of PLoS Pathogens by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital in Boston.

    "This could be of immense importance," said lead researcher Dr. Clyde Crumpacker, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and an investigator in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Beth Israel Deaconess. "The implication for the human population is that antiviral therapy or a vaccine could be an intervention for high blood pressure."
    Blood vessel problems related to CMV infection were first noted in heart transplant recipients, Crumpacker said. Those who were CMV-positive were more likely to have blockage of the heart arteries.
    "We were able to measure blood pressure directly in the arteries of the mice," Crumpacker said. The studies showed increased blood pressure in the infected mice after six weeks, but not in the uninfected group. It also showed that 30 percent of the infected mice in the high-cholesterol group developed atherosclerosis as well as high blood pressure.
    Cytomegalovirus is spread through close, personal contract.
    Cytomegalovirus

    Transmission of HCMV occurs from person to person through bodily fluids. Infection requires close, intimate contact with a person excreting the virus in their saliva, urine, or other bodily fluids. CMV can be sexually transmitted and can also be transmitted via breast milk, transplanted organs, and rarely from blood transfusions.

    Although HCMV is not highly contagious, it has been shown to spread in households and among young children in day care centers. Transmission of the virus is often preventable because it is most often transmitted through infected bodily fluids that come in contact with hands and then are absorbed through the nose or mouth of a susceptible person. Therefore, care should be taken when handling children and items like diapers. Simple hand washing with soap and water is effective in removing the virus from the hands.
    Just because a disease hits a family particularly hard doesn't mean it's genetic. There are usually better explanations including infectious disease.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-16-2009 at 10:47 AM.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,090
    Hi Dingo,

    I just love your research into possibly infectious disease causing at least some of the scoliosis cases out there. I hope to God you are right and that a large portion of these cases and other diseases could just be vaccinated out of existence. Time will tell. Keep up your research. It's fascinating. I'm sending best wishes to you and your son.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    948

    Thanks!

    Ballet Mom

    Thanks for your thoughts. My son goes in on Monday at 3:30pm and I'm crossing my fingers that his progression wasn't too bad.

    We started strength training, stretching and balance training a week ago. I wish we had started 8 months ago when he was diagnosed but we didn't know what to do.

    I hope to God you are right and that a large portion of these cases and other diseases could just be vaccinated out of existence. Time will tell.
    I know how crazy it sounds that a back disorder could be caused by an infection but in my opinion it's almost certainly the environmental component behind most cases of progressive AIS. I'll keep watching the headlines.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    494
    Interesting, Vical Incorporated (VICL) has a vaccine for cmv in clinical trials now.

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    948

    Yep

    Interesting, Vical Incorporated (VICL) has a vaccine for cmv in clinical trials now.
    I'm not sure about the release date on this particular CMV vaccine but I know that scientists have been working on a variety of these for a long time. It's my understanding that inside of a decade children and perhaps adults will be vaccinated against CMV.

    That's a good thing because CMV is associated with many types of diseases including common birth defects, colon cancer and heart disease just to name a few.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-16-2009 at 10:29 PM.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,901
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Everyone knows that Scoliosis is a common side effect of Polio infection.

    Do other infections cause Scoliosis? You bet.

    Fish scoliosis triggered by parasite

    Horse Scoliosis triggered by parasite

    Alpaca scoliosis triggered by parasite

    Goat scoliosis triggered by parasite

    Google Search: parasite scoliosis
    Hey Dingo, CD, posted a link to an article with the following statement,

    "The pathogenesis of AIS, a condition exclusive to humans, has been the subject of many studies."

    http://journals.lww.com/spinejournal...pathic.11.aspx

    Then the animal models would appear to be irrelevant.

    Comments?
    Last edited by Pooka1; 06-01-2009 at 05:58 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    948

    Scoliosis only exists in humans?

    Pooka1

    "The pathogenesis of AIS, a condition exclusive to humans, has been the subject of many studies."
    Oops, I guess scientists can make some pretty obvious mistakes. Scoliosis afflicts many animals besides humans. I found those 4 animals with just a few minutes of googling.

    Suddenly your quote comes to mind, "Most Published research results are false."
    Last edited by Dingo; 06-01-2009 at 06:04 PM.

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,901
    As far as I can tell, they are saying that AIS occurs only in humans and that the causes scoliosises-es-es in other animals are not relevant.

    They are not saying scoliosis doesn't occur in other animals besides humans.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    948

    Ais

    As far as I can tell, they are saying that AIS occurs only in humans and that the causes scoliosises-es-es in other animals are not relevant.
    Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis (AIS) is Scoliosis of unknown cause. In the animal studies that I listed the cause is known to be an infection. Whether the two are similar in some way is unknown.
    Last edited by Dingo; 06-01-2009 at 08:57 PM.

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,901
    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis (AIS) is Scoliosis of unknown cause. In the animal studies that I listed the cause is known to be an infection. Whether the two are similar in some way is unknown.
    Yes but in the identical way that they determined the cause in these other animal models, don't you think they did the same thing with humans and they ruled that out for AIS long, long ago? These guys are very clever as a rule.

    I mean if you have a non-human animal model and you had the wherewithal to find the cause of the scoliosis there, why couldn't they do it with humans?

    That's why they say AIS only occurs in humans. It means they have ruled out all known causes of scoliosis in any animal and they haven't yet identified the cause in humans. At this point, AIS is unique to humans in the animal kingdom.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  13. #103
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    948

    idiopathic

    Pooka1

    Idiopathic means of unknown cause. By it's very definition Idiopathic Scolosis isn't confined to humans.

    In any case the point is that scientists know that infections cause Scoliosis in animals. They also know that infection with the polio virus can lead to Scoliosis in humans.
    Last edited by Dingo; 06-02-2009 at 09:50 AM.

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Yes but in the identical way that they determined the cause in these other animal models, don't you think they did the same thing with humans and they ruled that out for AIS long, long ago?
    I mean if you have a non-human animal model and you had the wherewithal to find the cause of the scoliosis there, why couldn't they do it with humans?
    Because of ethical concerns, you cannot cause scoliosis in a human. You can only observe it and try to sort out the causes. In animal models, you design an experiment where you change one thing and observe the outcome. Give the animal CMV, mutate a gene, introduce a drug, change diet etc. and then see what happens. Its not at all the same.

    My disclaimer to this statement, is that I have no idea if this is what was done in the animals that were cited. I didn't read the details.

  15. #105
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,901
    Quote Originally Posted by PNUTTRO View Post
    Because of ethical concerns, you cannot cause scoliosis in a human. You can only observe it and try to sort out the causes. In animal models, you design an experiment where you change one thing and observe the outcome. Give the animal CMV, mutate a gene, introduce a drug, change diet etc. and then see what happens. Its not at all the same.

    My disclaimer to this statement, is that I have no idea if this is what was done in the animals that were cited. I didn't read the details.
    I didn't read the papers either. I assumed it was where researchers tracked down the cause of naturally occurring scoliosis in other animal models. If it is where researchers INDUCE scoliosis in animals that wouldn't normally have soliosis then the research is even less relevant than I thought as they are by definition NOT inducing idiopathic scoliosis.

    I must admit that possibly didn't even occur to me because then I don't know why Dingo would cite it. It would be completely irrelevant to AIS.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •