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Thread: Autism researchers shifting away from genes - Scoliosis next?

  1. #16
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    speaking of infectious disease

    Endocardial Fibroelastosis is a heart disorder in infants. It used to afflict 1 in 5000 children in the USA and was often fatal. It hit some families harder than others which suggested a genetic susceptability. Doctors also noticed a correlation with mumps but they weren't sure why. When mumps vaccinations became widespread the disorder completely disappeared.

    I think this is the general direction that Scoliosis researchers need to look.

    The 13% MZ concordance rate from the Danish study suggests that Scoliosis is strongly environmental. Whatever the environmental trigger is it has to have been around for thousands of years.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-14-2009 at 10:29 AM.

  2. #17
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    Boys who at the age of 15 ate fish at least once a week on average scored seven percent better on the general IQ test three years later, while those who ate fish more than once a week scored 12 percent higher, the study showed.

    How do they know if it is the fish? Maybe smart kids just eat more healthy BECAUSE they are smart and not the other way around? (written as I munch away at a MilkyWay bar).

    Without a random controlled trial, it has to be difficult to make an attribution like that.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Thanks for the link! I've heard about that project but that's way higher up than I'm thinking.
    I say go bigger.

    You still haven't convinced me but maybe the micro people will.

  4. #19
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    fish oil and intelligence

    concerned dad

    You are right, the results of one study could mean pretty much anything depending on how it was set up. But fish oil has been found to increase intelligence in numerous studies.

    Fish and fish oil is one of the few things that scores points in studies over and over again. I think this is probably because humans evolved close to rivers, lakes and the ocean. We must have grown dependent on fish as a source of food and nutrients.

  5. #20
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    microbe

    PNUTTRO

    You still haven't convinced me but maybe the micro people will.

    Only research will tell if there is a connection or not. I would guess (perhaps incorrectly) that right now there is nobody looking for an infectious cause of Scoliosis.

    In a way that's perplexing because scientists already know that an infection can curve a spine (Polio). At least some research should be focused in a direction where we've already struck gold.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-14-2009 at 10:12 PM.

  6. #21
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    Speaking of inflammation

    Google Search: polio epidemic inflammation

    I have been doing some reading on Polio. I never knew that a significant cause of Polio symptoms was the damage caused by out of control inflammation in the spinal cord. Scoliosis was a common side effect of Polio.

    I don't know if that is relevant to Scoliosis but it bears repeating that Calmodulin is closely related to both inflammation and curve progression.

    Fish oil is a known anti-inflammatory. Let me be perfectly clear that I have no idea if fish oil might reduce curve progression in some kids. But at least there is a thread of logic to the idea.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-15-2009 at 12:49 PM.

  7. #22
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    I have to hand it to you Dingo, you bring a new perspective to things. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes, unbiased from existing dogma (OK, maybe dogma isnít the best word for it but you know what I mean), can see things others have missed. Not saying thatís the case here, but you never know. In the search for answers there is little as motivating as a parents love for their child. I think youíll agree that the same motivation can also bring you down some wrong paths (I think thatís what happened to me anyway).

    Youíve certainly given me some things to scratch my head about.

  8. #23
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    You are too nice

    concerned dad

    You are too kind. When my son was diagnosed I was devastated. I've been thinking about this 24/7 for about 8 months now. I hope I'm on the right track but if I'm not I hope I'm not doing harm.

    It makes sense that inflammation and Scoliosis might work together. Generally speaking inflammation and illness go hand in hand.

  9. #24
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    easy test

    concerned dad'

    Scientists need to test anti-inflammatory injections on Scoliosis.

    Some children have 50 or 60 degree curves and they get worse every month. These kids are headed for fusion. Maybe scientists could inject their backs with an anti-inflammatory and see if it stops or slows curve progression. If a child is getting fused anyway it's worth a shot.

    If it helps and it's safe they could try it on a wider range of kids. Maybe in the future children with large curves will get anti-inflammatory injections every 6 months instead of a brace.

    2 recent animals studies found that Tamoxifen (a Calmodulin antagonist) helped Scoliosis considerably. That might come back to inflammation.

    February 26, 2009 - The effect of calmodulin antagonists on scoliosis: bipedal C57BL/6 mice model

    "This study has demonstrated that TMX is effective in changing the natural history of scoliotic deformities in C57BL6 mice model favorably."
    March 15, 2009 - The Effect of Calmodulin Antagonists on Experimental Scoliosis: A Pinealectomized Chicken Model

    "Conclusion. The incidence and magnitude of scoliosis in pinealectomized chicken may be decreased by the administration of TMX, presumably because of this drugs' calmodulin antagonism. Further studies on higher animals and dosage and timing are required."
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-16-2009 at 12:05 AM.

  10. #25
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    Scoliosis not necessarily a fixed deformity

    Curve pattern changes in idiopathic scoliosis

    In this study, changes in curve patterns suggest that idiopathic scoliosis is not a fixed deformity, but a dynamic process especially in patients younger than 10 years.
    The fact that Scoliosis is not necessarily a fixed deformity suggests that it may have an inflammation component. Once bone growth has been placed upon an inflamed and misaligned foundation the deformity may become more permanent.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-16-2009 at 11:35 AM.

  11. #26
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    Dingo,
    I suspect you'll be interested in reading this 1999 paper in SPine

    Nutritional deficiency was proposed as a cause in the beginning of this century, and most spinal curves were thought to be secondary to rickets.
    Brunk,9 however, showed that the curves identified as rickets presumably caused by vitamin D deficiency never became severe and actually were reversible by treatment.9


    Cause of Ideopathic Scoliosis

    Just got me thinking about Vitamin D, Fish oil, your discussion about the sun (relates to Vitamin D and Melatonin, right?). Interesting.

  12. #27
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    cool!

    Good link!

    Just got me thinking about Vitamin D, Fish oil, your discussion about the sun (relates to Vitamin D and Melatonin, right?). Interesting

    Yep, it's all related. What Brunk found makes sense. Kids with a nutritional deficiency can cure their Scoliosis over time if they fix the deficiency. But most kids don't have a deficiency. Something is busted in the central nervous system and the byproduct is Calmodulin which might mean inflammation. This inflammation creates irregularity in the spine and bone growth is built on this unstable foundation. Just about every chronic illness is related to inflammation so this isn't a revolutionary hypothesis.

    Until scientists know how to fix the main problem at least we can control the inflammation and potentially fix or reduce a curve or it's progression. Maybe. Unless scientists find out otherwise fish oil and/or sleeping in a dark room shouldn't hurt and it might help. In any case they are both beneficial to a child's general health.

  13. #28
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    Cat parasite affects human brains and culture

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-cpm080206.php

    Little is known about the causes of cultural change, but behavioral manipulation by a common brain parasite, Toxoplasma gondii, may be among the factors that play a role, according to a new study by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) published in the August 2, 2006, issue of Proceedings of the Royal Society, Biology.

    "In populations where this parasite is very common, mass personality modification could result in cultural change," said study author Kevin Lafferty, a USGS scientist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, who has conducted extensive studies of parasites in coastal ecosystems. "The geographic variation in the latent prevalence of Toxoplasma gondii may explain a substantial proportion of human population differences we see in cultural aspects that relate to ego, money, material possessions, work, and rules."


    Man, I can suggest a few aspects of society that are likely going to be explained by brain parasites.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #29
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    Scary!

    Pooka1

    Man, I can suggest a few aspects of society that are likely going to be explained by brain parasites.

    You know there are a lot of crazy people floating around the world. This might explain a lot of previously unexplainable behavior.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Pooka1

    Man, I can suggest a few aspects of society that are likely going to be explained by brain parasites.

    You know there are a lot of crazy people floating around the world. This might explain a lot of previously unexplainable behavior.
    This, along with some of what brain science has already revealed, is going to be explaining things that a majority of people in the US don't want explained by anything except faith.

    Bank on it.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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