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Thread: Recent study on Melatonin and Scoliosis

  1. #31
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    Regarding vertebral malformations and scoliosis

    Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
    Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction

  2. #32
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    I appreciate the links

    Karen Ocker

    I appreciate the links because I love reading this stuff but the history of "Gene X causes Disorder Y" research has been an almost complete bust. Over the last 20 years how many headlines have you read like this one?
    Dr. Jones discovers gene that causes common disorder X!
    You've probably seen thousands of these but the sad truth is that in nearly every case these genes are quietly "unfound" within a few years. Those genes that truly do correlate with illness typically create susceptability but don't actually cause the disorder. Many times scientists have no idea why a gene might correlate with a particular disorder.

    Here is a prime example.
    Analysis finds many genes tied to cancer don’t raise risk of getting it

    "They found that, out of 240 associations between a specific mutation and a cancer, only two genes involved in DNA repair and tied to lung cancer — XRCC1 and ERCC2 — turned out to be strong candidates for such a link."

    It's the same story almost every time. Scientists find a gene and a few months or years later they unfind it.

    If you asked 100 people what caused Multiple Sclerosis how many of them would say genetics? My guess is that nearly all of them would. Here is a simple google search on the subject, multiple sclerosis gene. Scientists have found lots of genes that correlate with MS. But that doesn't mean that any of them cause MS. In fact research points strongly towards Mono, the kissing disease.

    Glandular fever link offers hope of vaccine for MS
    AUSTRALIAN researchers have made what may prove to be a key discovery in the hunt for the cause of multiple sclerosis by finding that patients with the degenerative nerve condition cannot properly control levels of the Epstein-Barr virus, which causes glandular fever.

    Sure there are plenty of genes involved but only in the sense that they might reduce the bodies ability to deal with Mono. This weakness ultimately leads to nervous system damage.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-06-2009 at 02:02 PM.

  3. #33
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    Genes and Scoliosis

    Karen Ocker

    Everyone in my immediate family with mitochondrial DNA has scoliosis. Mother, sister, brother, myself and girl cousin. If it's environmental why not my father?

    There is a possibility that your family shares a new, rare genetic mutation that leads to Scoliosis. However it is overwhelmingly likely that you all share a "susceptability gene". This gene doesn't cause Scoliosis, it only creates a susceptability to the environmental trigger that does.

    You mention that everyone on your mother's side has Scoliosis. Have you wondered how a gene like that could survive for 100s or 1000s of generations in primitive environments? Scoliosis directly impacts children. A gene like that couldn't survive let alone spread. Unless you have a new mutation it almost has to be a susceptability gene.

    There are families where everyone on one side has Type 1 Diabetes, MS, Ulcers or any number of disorders. That is not proof that a disease is genetic.

    Ulcers probably ran in many families and they are caused by bacteria.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-06-2009 at 04:14 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    You mention that everyone on your mother's side has Scoliosis. Have you wondered how a gene like that could survive for 100s or 1000s of generations in primitive environments? Scoliosis directly impacts children. A gene like that couldn't survive let alone spread. Unless you have a new mutation it almost has to be a susceptability gene.
    WTF! I'll give you the opportunity to try to explain this one again.

  5. #35
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    Natural selection

    PNUTTRO

    I'll give you the opportunity to try to explain this one again.

    Natural selection

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    PNUTTRO

    I'll give you the opportunity to try to explain this one again.

    Natural selection

    I don't think we are allowed to mention "natural selection" on this forum.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #37
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    Simple example

    Here is a simple example straight from todays headlines

    Natural biology is just fine until something else goes wrong.

    Molecular Switch Linking Infectious Disease And Depression Identified

    13% MZ pairwise concordance suggests that Scoliosis won't be any different. It's not sickle cell anemia.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-06-2009 at 05:11 PM.

  8. #38
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    Natural Selection

    Pooka1

    I don't think we are allowed to mention "natural selection" on this forum.

    Right now one of the most popular threads on Watching and Waiting is "Would my child inherit my scoliosis?"

    Loads of moms are desperately worried that they are passing on a genetic disorder to their child because scientists have told everyone that Scoliosis is caused by heredity.

    From a theoretical point of view:
    Scoliosis is very common, maybe 2% of kids have it. Newsflash: genetic disorders in children are almost all rare thanks to natural selection.

    Now comes the evidence
    Scoliosis is 13% MZ (identical twin) pairwise concordant and 0% DZ (fraternal twin) pairwise concordant. That's about as low as you can go.

    I don't know what else people could be waiting for. The theory and evidence overwhelmingly suggest that in most cases Scoliosis is not a genetic disorder.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-06-2009 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    You mention that everyone on your mother's side has Scoliosis. Have you wondered how a gene like that could survive for 100s or 1000s of generations in primitive environments? Scoliosis directly impacts children. A gene like that couldn't survive let alone spread. Unless you have a new mutation it almost has to be a susceptability gene.
    Your comment implies that a scoliosis susceptibility gene would not transmit over generations. Is that what you meant?

  10. #40
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    Scoliosis susceptability gene

    Your comment implies that a scoliosis susceptibility gene would not transmit over generations. Is that what you meant?

    For a variety of reasons susceptability genes can last indefinitely. The most obvious reason is that they may offer some other benefit.

    Most people with the gene probably won't run into "factor X" at the key time that can trigger Scoliosis. This larger group may receive a fitness benefit from the same gene. It might work 100 different ways but if a gene is common it offers a useful trait or at least it used to at some point in history. Worst case scenario it floats in the neutral zone.

    Rare mutations can be deadly but they have a hard time being anything but rare. This is especially true in children. If a gene takes out a child it goes down with the ship before it has a chance to spread.
    Last edited by Dingo; 04-06-2009 at 09:59 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Pooka1

    I don't think we are allowed to mention "natural selection" on this forum.

    Right now one of the most popular threads on Watching and Waiting is "Would my child inherit my scoliosis?"
    Ah no. I was unclear.

    Natural selection, along with some other things, is too factual for some here.

    We can't assume everyone is interested in facts.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    We can't assume everyone is interested in facts.
    I, for one, am going to spend the rest of my life trying to work the Syrian Hamster story into at least ONE conversation outside this board.
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


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  13. #43
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    not necessarily a susceptability gene

    PNUTTRO

    Another thing is that it wouldn't technically have to offer increased susceptability to "factor X". It might only offer increased susceptability to the disease itself.

    For instance Gene A does a great job until flu virus takes down Subsystem B. When Subsystem B goes down the protein that Gene A codes for becomes a liability and the victim dies of Disease C.

    There is nothing wrong with Gene A, nor does it increase susceptability to flu virus. But if Subsytem B happens to go down the body fails. Nearly everyone who dies of Disease C also happens to have Gene A, but the actual problem is flu virus.

    The other day I was reading about an eye disorder that worked just like that. Nearly every person with the disorder had a particular gene but most people with the gene didn't get the disorder. I can't remember what scientists thought triggered the disorder but it was something mundane.

  14. #44
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    Syrian hamsters ... Syrian hamsters ... Syrian hamsters.

    It's my new mantra.
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
    Pre-op 53, Post-op < 20
    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


    VIEW MY X-RAYS
    EMAIL ME

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by txmarinemom View Post
    I, for one, am going to spend the rest of my life trying to work the Syrian Hamster story into at least ONE conversation outside this board.
    Look, you, clearly are interested in facts.

    Almost half the US populace is specifically NOT interested in facts. Certain things are too factual for them.

    They live in a demon haunted world.

    It is a FACT that Syrian hamsters have no limit when it comes to alcohol consumption.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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