Clear Institute vs. Schroth Method

[MissEmmyF]

A disclosure to that effect, if true, would be the most honest approach, yes?

yes, that would be nice, but my main point was many of you were basically accusing her of that right off the bat.

[concerned dad]

I suppose that would be me who accused her right off the bat..... but there were 7 posts. SEVEN! I guess I could be wrong. We havent seen that level of activity from a new member since, let me see, since Mamamax joined (aw, come on Mamamax, I'm just kidding you here )

I suppose the 'tell' would be if she ever comes back, but I also suppose that with my questioning attitude about her legitimacy, maybe she wouldnt come back even if she were legit. So perhaps I goofed. But I wanted to take the op to point it out to Mamamax (because to me at least it seemed pretty clear what was happening)

Now you MissEmmyf came her and posted a reasonable question about a controversial topic and stuck around to discuss it. That is entirely different from the poster in question.

So, instead of me hijacking your thread. I would get back on topic and ask if anyone knows just how much it costs to get Schroth or Clear Therapy? I know Mamamax has it included in the treatment (presumably), but how much does it cost to get specialized, individual instruction/therapy?

[mamamax]

oh heck CD, i do have a sense of humor In fact - well, go look at the most recent posting in Setting The Record Straight ... come on - I mean, the song of the moment is What's Going On? (4 Non Blonds).

Our ice skater - i know who she is, and she is real - but i'll be darned if i'll give her name away without her permission, at this time. Think the other nice lady in this thread is real too. I do have serious doubts about the person in the Setting the Record Straight though .. very suspicious, and i near never say anything like that (oh no .. its happening to me too! We've been infected by a virus!). So, anyway, i find one post (there) far more suspicious than the original seven in question. What does that mean? Suspicion need not require any specific number.

oh yes .. the cost of Schroth therapy is included in my treatment - emphatically.

[gardenjen]

The cost of Schroth treatment varies. For 1:1 hands-on P.T. 4 hrs./day for 2 weeks at Scoliosis Rehab, we paid privately ~$5000; insurance is usually billed about double. Another clinic called Spinal Dynamics in Milwaukee uses more group classes and the cost is reportedly less. The Spanish and German programs are more hours per day for more weeks and cost less for the P.T. treatment, but transportation and room and board (including for parents) effects the actual cost. For instance, my bargain airline ticket for Germany in September is $750. While we were in Stevens Point, another patient had insurance which would pay for one week per year, so she came for one week and planned to come back for the second week the following year. A good angle for anyone with that type of coverage.

[mamamax]

Hi! I'm a 56 yr. female with a 42 deg thoracic curve and a 47 deg lumbar curve along with rotation. I went to Scoliosis Rehab in January and had a very good experience working with their team. While I had previously read the Scroth Book, it was great to have someone explain what type of scoliosis I had (4-curve, reverse of the typical 4-curve) and the specific exercises for my scoliosis. They also showed me body mechanics for every day activities. It's been very helpful.

hi Eve - Glad to hear Schroth is working well for you (and hope i'll be able to say the same soon). so you've been doing them for about 4 months? Was wondering how much time they require for you in a given day. To be honest i'm finding them rather difficult to do but will get a refresher on the 27th. Once you got the hang of them, how long did it take for you to notice a difference in the way your body felt?

[MissEmmyF]

So, instead of me hijacking your thread. I would get back on topic and ask if anyone knows just how much it costs to get Schroth or Clear Therapy? I know Mamamax has it included in the treatment (presumably), but how much does it cost to get specialized, individual instruction/therapy?

Clear Therapy is really expensive...I haven't tried it, but I did email Dr. Hersh in Hartford, CT at the Scoliosis Correction Center...treatment was going to cost $500 for an initial consultation including x-rays. A year of treatment after that was going to cost $11,900. And, if your curve was around 30 degrees or higher they highly recommended you purchase your own "scoliosis traction chair" to use at home...which i believe was around $4,000. Wayyyy too much money for me! Insurance doesn't cover any of it. And, if you had to come from out of state, you'd have addt'l hotel, car rental, food costs, etc.

Schroth on the other hand...I'm going to do 2 days of intensive Schroth therapy with Dr. Moramarco in MA next weekend (16th & 17th). The treatment time seems to be based on your age, your curve, how quickly you catch on to the exercises, etc. He agreed to do 2 days of therapy with me (for 4 hours each day just one on one with him; no other patients) and see how that goes. Standard protocol seems to be about a week or so of treatment, but he is flexible depending on each scenario. My initial consultation with him was $187 for 3 hours (I had to send him x-rays and a few other things ahead of time for him to review). It would have only been a normal copay charge for the eval, but since MA is "out of network" for my insurance, it was $187. He explained Schroth therapy thoroughly, did a thorough evaluation with digital photos, he put mirrors behind me so I could see my back, breathing test, scoliometer reading, etc. Plus, I got to watch him work with a patient doing her Schroth exercises.

In terms of actual treatment cost, the billing code they use there is BSS (Back Specific School), and I don't think any insurance covers this code (mine doesn't). At some other Schroth facilities though, they do use "normal" PT billing codes so insurance will cover some, if not all, of the cost (in my case though, since I live in CT and there are no Schroth practitioners in CT, I'd have to go out of network no matter what...and unfortunately, I have a $2,000 deductible for anything out of network)...each facility differs, so you'd have to find out ahead of time. So, basically, with Dr. Moramarco, he charges $175/hour for treatment (this is one on one, he is hands-on the whole time, he gets down on the ground, etc.). So, you can do the math from there. Overall, it's a good deal for me because it's not too costly, it's a highly specialized/targeted program for your particular curve, they don't require you to come back weekly (they give you a DVD to go home with of you doing the exercises at the facility so you can make sure you're doing them correctly when you're home), you don't need to buy a lot of equipment to practice the exercises at home, and I don't have to travel too far.

Think that answers everything!

[MissEmmyF]

Oh, and the other thing I wanted to point out from my experience is...the Clear Therapy seems to make bigger claims about being able reduce curves (even in adults), but Dr. Moramarco didn't give me any false hopes of me being able to reduce my curve. The main points of Schroth for adults are improved breathing, improved posture, reduced pain, and having a sense of empowerment over your scoliosis rather than letting your scoliosis control you (i.e. working out the musculature surrounding your spine in a particular way so that it supports your spine more effortlessly).

[mamamax]

Thanks Emmy - i for one am really interested in the information you will be able to share with us!

[MissEmmyF]

Hi Everyone, figured I'd send along an update...I just got back from my weekend of intensive Schroth therapy with Dr. Moramarco (4 hours on Sat. and 4 hours on Sun.). It was an awesome experience! Let me know if you're interested in hearing about it, or PM me if you have any specific questions. Thanks!

[concerned dad]

I am sure we would all love to hear of your experience.
Please fill us in on the background info too if you feel comfortable sharing(curve amplitude if known, are you /were you experiencing pain, were you braced as a child, any other treatments you've tried ...)

[MissEmmyF]

I am sure we would all love to hear of your experience.
Please fill us in on the background info too if you feel comfortable sharing(curve amplitude if known, are you /were you experiencing pain, were you braced as a child, any other treatments you've tried ...)

no problem. I'm 26 and have a right thoracolumbar curve (35 degrees)...only 2 of my vertebrae are actually in the thoracic region, so it's predominantly lumbar. i also have a very, very slight compensatory left thoracic curve. my scoliosis was spotted after i was already skeleturally mature, and the curve was about 22 degrees then (i was around 13 i believe). by the time i was 18, it had progressed to 35 degrees...and it has remained at 35 degrees until now. that's the basic gist...i've never been braced due to the fact that i was already skeleturally mature when it was spotted.

up until a few years ago, i didn't really have any noticeable problems or pain relating to my scoliosis. plus, i didn't think too much about it because i had always been told by orthos that i wasn't "bad enough" for surgery, so we'd just continue to "watch and monitor". i was always told to come back after my first child (haven't had any children yet!), but i get re-checked every 2 years just to keep on top of it.

so, a few years ago (maybe 7-8 years ago now), i started to have stiffness, tightness, pain, etc. relating to my scoliosis. my muscles were obviously getting worn down from living with the condition for a while. specifically, the right side of my back (convex) felt overstretched and sore. the left side (concave) usually never felt like much of anything (due to the fact that the muscles on that side weren't doing much to support my spine and were slowly atrophying) or would get sore once in a while. mostly, it felt like all my weight was trying to be held up by the right side of my back - the muscles on that side of my back were getting the brunt of everything. both my shoulders and my neck (and my hamstrings!) always felt a little tight too.

FYI, i do have the typical "head forward tilt" that is very common with scoliosis...the vertebrae in my neck are fairly straight instead of having some curve to them like they are supposed to...i also have a slight excess of kyphosis in my upper back which is somewhat unusual...i know flatback is usually more common.

when i started to complain of my pain to orthos, i was always told by them that i was "fine" or "doing good" (whatever that means!), my pain might not even be scoliosis related (which was maddening), etc. essentially, they didn't really have anything helpful to tell me and didn't really have any "need" for me until my scoliosis became "bad enough" to be operated on.

that's when i started looking into alternative therapies to deal with my PAIN (NOT a curve reduction since i know people love to comment on that and get the threads off track). i've tried a number of things over the past few years just to do my due diligence to see what could possibly help me...general yoga, yoga for scoliosis, stretching, PT, massage therapy, pilates, chiropractic, rolfing, etc. up until this weekend, i was doing some PT, stretching, yoga for scoliosis, and getting massages once every three weeks to deal with my pain (i found that's what seemed to work the best for me). i have been doing these few things combined consistently for a number of years now (about a half hour every day or longer)...however, i still continued to have increased pain over the years even though my curvature luckily wasn't worsening. since i wasn't getting the pain relief i needed, that's when i started to delve even deeper into research on alternative therapies.

so, that's when i came across schroth therapy. i read a lot about it online, contacted probably at least 20 people that have done the program, contacted a few facilities in the US that offer schroth, etc. all had good things to say, and it made a lot of sense to me, so i figured i'd give it a shot. i chose dr. moramarco because he was located the closest to me and he seemed extremely knowledgeable about scoliosis and passionate about schroth when i talked to him on the phone. the main thing i liked about schroth was the fact that the final outcome would be me having a scoliosis treatment program that was tailored to my particular curve. plus, none of the exercises would be detrimental to my scoliosis (whereas some of the poses in yoga are sort of contrived and may be doing more harm than good unless you REALLY know what you're doing). also, i liked the fact that once you learn schroth, you're then off on your own doing the exercises (i.e. you don't need to go back to the practitioner each week like is so typical with massage, PT, or chiropractic).

i was extremely impressed with everything i learned this weekend. dr. moramarco worked with me one on one for four hours each day (sat. and sun). i know more about my particular scoliosis than i ever have before, the exercises make sense to me, i can now do them at home on my own (i have a DVD and photos of me doing the exercises so I can make sure I'm doing them correctly at home), etc. overall, it was a great experience, and i'd highly recommend it to anyone who is currently pursuing PT or yoga...Schroth is way more specific. you are supposed to do the exercises about 6 days a week for a half hour each day, but for me, this will end up being less than i was doing before! plus, it's really my only option, so i have no problem with that. my scoliosis maintenance is a lifetime thing for me which i've come to accept. my main hope is to have pain relief and get the muscles in my back functioning in a more effortless manner.

i can go into more detail about the actual program, etc. if you're interested. just didn't want to make this reply too long! plus, i'll keep you posted on my progress! obviously i can't say too much just yet since i haven't started to do the exercises at home on my own.

[aterry]

Thank you, MissEmmy, for the detailed information. I'm curious about the differences between Scroth and other scioliosis specific exercise and/or physiotherapy approaches. In the SOSORT briefs both SEAS and DoboMed are mentioned. Do you know whether the differences are a matter of specific exercises or over-all approach? Anyway, best of luck with your exercises and I'll be interested to learn more from you.

[concerned dad]

Yes, thanks for the information.
I wonder though, what about the pain? Did you get any relief from the pain yet or is that expected to take some time?

[MissEmmyF]

Thank you, MissEmmy, for the detailed information. I'm curious about the differences between Scroth and other scioliosis specific exercise and/or physiotherapy approaches. In the SOSORT briefs both SEAS and DoboMed are mentioned. Do you know whether the differences are a matter of specific exercises or over-all approach? Anyway, best of luck with your exercises and I'll be interested to learn more from you.

Hmmm, good question...I am not sure. I'd be interested to know though if you find out. I don't know about DoboMed at all, and I've only heard about SEAS a little bit. I don't know much about SOSORT, although Dr. Moramarco did mention to me yesterday that he was having one of his papers put into a SOSORT program of some sort (I believe him and Joe O'Brien had been in communication about it)??? I'm really not sure - I can ask him if you're interested...

[MissEmmyF]

Yes, thanks for the information.
I wonder though, what about the pain? Did you get any relief from the pain yet or is that expected to take some time?

Well, all I can say for right now is normally I feel the worst in the morning (before I do any type of stretching) and at night. Right after my first day of treatment on Sat. I figured I'd be really sore because I was getting muscles to fire that normally don't fire, etc. However, we walked around Quincy Market right after my treatment that day, and my back felt a lot better than it normally does or would have given the situation (i.e. walking around for a couple hours). Don't get me wrong, I was a bit sore, but it was a "good kind" of sore. And, right after doing the exercises, I could feel the muscles in the left side of my back working. They were obviously trying to "wake up" after years of not really using them.

The exercises I did during treatment allowed the left side of my back to fill with air and expand so that they looked equal to my right side (convex). The objective was to pull in and de-rotate my convex side and then expand and rotate outwards my concave side. Obviously, this symmetrical look is only temporary and is due to the specific exercise position and rotational breathing (which was hard to catch onto at first!), but the point is, it gets your main weak point (the concave part of your back) to fire. Over time, the goal for me is to get the muscles on that side of my back working more efficiently (or just plain working in general instead of continuing to atrophy!). The more you do it, the more the muscles work, the more muscle memory you gain, etc. That's where the pain reduction comes into play. I'm hopeful that if I keep up with the exercises (which aim to lengthen my shortened muscles and shorten my over-stretched muscles), I'll at least continue to get some pain relief. It makes sense.

Normally, when I bend over, I feel lots of tightness on only my right side and not much on my left side (my left side pretty much feels like nothing). However, when I bent over after treatment on Sat. and Sun., both sides felt pretty equal.

Hope that makes sense?