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Thread: anyone know about studies on psychological impact on development of IS?

  1. #16
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    I like connecting with my scoliosis tribe. It's interesting.

    To Susie Bee who wasn't sure if I would like her input that she didn't have psychological stress. Absolutely! That's why I put the question out there to see what others' experiences were.

    To Karen Ocker, ditto. Thank you for sharing your experiences. That must have been especially tough to have the curve progress so quickly at that age, and at the same time to know the financial toll it was taking on your family. That was quite a burden to deal with. I agree, in addition to issues I was already facing before scoliosis, just dealing with scoliosis has also taken its toll on me - even without major discomfort issues up till recently. Dealing with the appearance was the big one for me. I realize now it began in early adolescence when appearance was so important, even though I didn't have a name for it, when I noticed difference in waist, hip, posture. And by late 20's people were looking at me with great pity when I wore a tight tee-shirt. That's when I discovered that I was deformed, literally a hunchback. I'm not blaming scoliosis for my lousy social life. But it didn't help.

    Thanks to everyone who shared ethnic & psych background and to Linda Racine for interesting fact about dysautonomia - would like to know more. Never heard of it.

    To trcylynn about Louise Hay's book. I've heard of her before, and will track down her book. Thanks for the mention.

    To Wishing (interesting name choice by the way), you have had more than your share of challenges with the scoliosis, family dynamics, fall and other physical harm. How have you coped? I appreciate the validation of your also wondering about psychological component.

    To Sharon - I'm not ready to put theory to bed yet. Just because psychological stress is not always a factor does not mean it is not ever a factor. Most of studies and theories I've read postulate there are environmental agents acting on genetic predisposition. Agents can include things like hormones at puberty, but certainly emotional stress could be one as well. There's a lot of forces working on scoliosis and different people may be susceptible to different influences.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriek View Post
    To Sharon - I'm not ready to put theory to bed yet. Just because psychological stress is not always a factor does not mean it is not ever a factor. Most of studies and theories I've read postulate there are environmental agents acting on genetic predisposition. Agents can include things like hormones at puberty, but certainly emotional stress could be one as well. There's a lot of forces working on scoliosis and different people may be susceptible to different influences.
    That a good point but if we can't design a study to show it, then we can never really know it.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #18
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    Based on the response on this forum, only a small percentage believe emotions had anything to do with the development of their scoliosis. So it is not a popular idea. But if there were support for it, I don't see why someone couldn't design a study to evaluate psychological impact on adolescents with scoliosis. I'm sure the psych world has many tests to evaluate people for various conditions. While we are looking at possible triggers, why not consider factors such as family dynamics or depression - especially if a link is confirmed between serotonin and some scoliosis? Study could separate two groups of adolescents who rank high on stress, anxiety, depression or some other psych measurement. Treating one group with counseling or other psych aid, in addition to traditional medical care, and treating the other solely with traditional medical care and seeing if there is any difference in progression of curve.

    And change of subject. Sharon if you believe that all of scoliosis will eventually come down to genes, then how do you explain how your identical twins could have such a difference in the progression of their curves? They're the same age and have the same genes, so why is one progressing so much faster than the other? Obviously other things must factor in - nutrition? injury? what do you think?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen Ocker View Post
    The progression you describe has occurred in many of us without any other stress. ... Some curves do not progress especially if they are below 40 deg at skeletal maturity. Curves over 40 deg can progress 1-3 degrees a year over a lifespan.
    I'd also like to note, my curve (JIS dx) held within the margin of error (48-53) throughout adulthood - and two (to term) pregnancies. I'd always heard > 50 can be expected to move 1 a year, but that wasn't at all the case with mine.

    A fluke, perhaps ... or just a more closely documented case.

    Regards,
    Pam
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
    Pre-op 53, Post-op < 20
    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriek View Post
    Based on the response on this forum, only a small percentage believe emotions had anything to do with the development of their scoliosis. So it is not a popular idea.
    "Believe?" "Not a popular idea?"

    This is science. Belief doesn't come into it. Scientists accept things based on evidence. If folks don't believe it, it's because there is no evidence for it. If you have evidence, you don't need faith.

    And Galileo was one of at most a few people who KNEW, not believed, that the earth rotated around the sun. Most people thought the sun revolved around the earth. That was a popular idea which was completely wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by lauriek View Post
    But if there were support for it, I don't see why someone couldn't design a study to evaluate psychological impact on adolescents with scoliosis. (snip)
    Actually, this types of things are considered in bracing studies for example. Even if 23 hr a day hard bracing were shown to work, it may be the psychological burden of wearing that for a few years is far greater than fusion surgery (the only proven modality to stop and correct a curve). It certainly seems so at least. Life is short. This is the only go around we have. These considerations matter in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by lauriek View Post
    And change of subject. Sharon if you believe that all of scoliosis will eventually come down to genes, then how do you explain how your identical twins could have such a difference in the progression of their curves? They're the same age and have the same genes, so why is one progressing so much faster than the other? Obviously other things must factor in - nutrition? injury? what do you think?
    It could come down to gene copy numbers which are known to differ between identical twins. Or conditions in the womb may matter. One twin has been diagnosed with hypermobility syndrome but not the other. Other identical twin pairs differ in diagnosed conditions so there is some variation even starting with the same DNA.

    Finally, with female twins, there is the possibility of Lyonization wherein a differ X chromosome become dominant in each girl. Because one X is from the mother and one from the father, those girls can have different conditions.

    They eat the same stuff and have always done so. And if injury were related to scoliosis, we'd see much more of it out there. That doesn't seem to be possible.

    And by the way, the twin with the hypermobility is the one with the slower progression rate and almost no rotation until she got past 40*. If muscle tone is able to slow/correct scoliosis as is the paradigm of Schroth and all PT approaches, then I think they have their work cut out for them. It is consistent with the lack of results from that camp to date.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #21
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    i used the word 'believe' instead of 'fact', because as you well know - self reporting is not the same as scientific fact. just saying it's so doesn't make it so. could be. just don't know. other factors could come into play - denial, cultural variations. also, was a limited response, hardly conclusive.

    regarding schroth -- you seem to take the reverse position. despite several people on this forum who have said they got benefits from schroth, you have challenged their experiences as somehow not credible.

    so let me pose a reverse challenge. schroth has been around for almost a hundred years. you question why there haven't been more studies to prove its benefits. that's a legit question. it does open up the treatment to skepticism as to why that hasn't been done. but there is another point to consider. thousands of people have gone through the treatment annually. and yet i have not read one post on this forum or anywhere that states that schroth is a scam. for other alternative treatments there have been many postings of scams. but not schroth. even for scientifically validated conventional medical treatments you will get complaints from patients about its effectiveness. so the 'fact' that there is so little negative buzz about schroth should at least indicate there is some benefit to it. why are you so intent on believing it's a scam? doesn't mean we shouldn't want more proof. for any treatment it's good to see numbers and outcomes. but at the least from feedback and literature this treatment is legit. the people practicing it, and people availing themselves of it believe in it and indications are it has helped.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriek View Post
    regarding schroth -- you seem to take the reverse position. despite several people on this forum who have said they got benefits from schroth, you have challenged their experiences as somehow not credible.
    There are several people here who will tell you prayer works also. Yet there is not one wafer-thin iota of actual evidence prayer works.

    What really seems to work is no prayer...

    My horse recovered completely from a very dicey orthopedic condition that required months of rehab with no certain outcome ALL through the power of no prayer whatsoever.

    My kid had all four (unerupted) wisdom teeth removed on a Friday and it was uncertain if she could attend school the following week. There were two snow days and a delayed opening that following week. That was enough time off so that she could attend school when it reopened, much to her relief (less work to make up). Why did that happen? You guessed it... though the power of no prayer whatsoever!

    so let me pose a reverse challenge. schroth has been around for almost a hundred years. you question why there haven't been more studies to prove its benefits. that's a legit question. it does open up the treatment to skepticism as to why that hasn't been done. but there is another point to consider. thousands of people have gone through the treatment annually. and yet i have not read one post on this forum or anywhere that states that schroth is a scam.
    That is incorrect. There are any number of people who say it didn't work. And the (lack of) convincing pubs bears that out.

    for other alternative treatments there have been many postings of scams. but not schroth.
    That's incorrect.

    even for scientifically validated conventional medical treatments you will get complaints from patients about its effectiveness. so the 'fact' that there is so little negative buzz about schroth should at least indicate there is some benefit to it.
    If there is benefit then why haven't the purveyors shown it?

    why are you so intent on believing it's a scam? doesn't mean we shouldn't want more proof. for any treatment it's good to see numbers and outcomes. but at the least from feedback and literature this treatment is legit. the people practicing it, and people availing themselves of it believe in it and indications are it has helped.
    Everybody knows it but nobody shows it.

    You know what that means... not science.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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