Well, I promised Pooka that I would respond with something about the efficacy of prayer and its role with medicine (and note—I mean WITH, not IN PLACE of medicine) so here goes.
Pooka1 made the following statement in post #3 here: http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7386
“I'll tell you what mystifies me.... that an adult can believe intercessory prayer works. Pony up the peer-reviewed articles if you think it does.”
And this, from post #20 here: http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...6&page=2&pp=15
“How would you ever prove a good outcome was due to the prayers of a random confused, ignorant, 11 year old girl?
How would anyone ever "learn" that? Propose a method so that we can test that so we can "learn" that.
I love it how on the one hand folks demand evidence-based medicine for themselves and their kids but rely on fairy stories in other facets of their life where the rubber doesn't have to hit the road. Why don't you pray to be healed and forget about modern medicine? One could be forgiven for thinking that is very hypocritical.
My horse had a serious injury/condition and has been steadily improving though months of rehab through the power of no prayer whatsoever.
How would you explain that?
Also, how do you explain how a good, loving god lets little kids get scoliosis and all other afflictions in the first place? You can have that god.
Can you even attempt to be intellectually honest? Do you know what it means to be intellectually honest? It starts with NOT claiming to know things you can't possibly know. There is NO evidence that intercessory prayer works and plenty of evidence that it does not. You are a victim of inculcation.
In actuality, there have indeed been research studies conducted on prayer and its possible role in medicine, and published in legitimate journals all around the world, as well as being the subject of many books. These studies sometimes prove one way, sometimes another. They are all good food for thought. They do exist.
My intention is to just provide some resources that people can look at—others can post some as well, and then people can read and think about what has been presented. For some, this may reconfirm their present views. Others may be looking at information they didn’t know existed. Regardless of our individual stands, I hope this can be a thread for exploring ideas and not an emotional battlefield for pushing agendas without respecting others’ beliefs, whether they be based on a recognized religion or a non-religious world view. I also think it is perfectly acceptable if we share our own belief, as long as we do so without expecting others to also share our view. I find it interesting to see what other people think. I will post my views on prayer in the next post, so that others may understand where I’m coming from. This is not an open invitation for slaughter, just sharing.
I am not narrowing “prayer” down to any specific faith—you can read these studies and determine if the individual studies have done that or not. Again, this is just a starting point. Please feel free to post links you find. This is for sharing ideas.
1. http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/...n11101_fm.html
(same study, different journal)
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed
3. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/he...ex=1097467200&
4. http://ijahsp.nova.edu/articles/Vol2...utz-prayer.htm
5. http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm
6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed
7. http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2...05-prayer.html
8. http://www.mercola.com/article/prayer/dossey.htm
9. http://www.texnews.com/1998/religion/med1003.html
Pooka1 made the following statement in post #3 here: http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7386
“I'll tell you what mystifies me.... that an adult can believe intercessory prayer works. Pony up the peer-reviewed articles if you think it does.”
And this, from post #20 here: http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...6&page=2&pp=15
“How would you ever prove a good outcome was due to the prayers of a random confused, ignorant, 11 year old girl?
How would anyone ever "learn" that? Propose a method so that we can test that so we can "learn" that.
I love it how on the one hand folks demand evidence-based medicine for themselves and their kids but rely on fairy stories in other facets of their life where the rubber doesn't have to hit the road. Why don't you pray to be healed and forget about modern medicine? One could be forgiven for thinking that is very hypocritical.
My horse had a serious injury/condition and has been steadily improving though months of rehab through the power of no prayer whatsoever.
How would you explain that?
Also, how do you explain how a good, loving god lets little kids get scoliosis and all other afflictions in the first place? You can have that god.
Can you even attempt to be intellectually honest? Do you know what it means to be intellectually honest? It starts with NOT claiming to know things you can't possibly know. There is NO evidence that intercessory prayer works and plenty of evidence that it does not. You are a victim of inculcation.
In actuality, there have indeed been research studies conducted on prayer and its possible role in medicine, and published in legitimate journals all around the world, as well as being the subject of many books. These studies sometimes prove one way, sometimes another. They are all good food for thought. They do exist.
My intention is to just provide some resources that people can look at—others can post some as well, and then people can read and think about what has been presented. For some, this may reconfirm their present views. Others may be looking at information they didn’t know existed. Regardless of our individual stands, I hope this can be a thread for exploring ideas and not an emotional battlefield for pushing agendas without respecting others’ beliefs, whether they be based on a recognized religion or a non-religious world view. I also think it is perfectly acceptable if we share our own belief, as long as we do so without expecting others to also share our view. I find it interesting to see what other people think. I will post my views on prayer in the next post, so that others may understand where I’m coming from. This is not an open invitation for slaughter, just sharing.
I am not narrowing “prayer” down to any specific faith—you can read these studies and determine if the individual studies have done that or not. Again, this is just a starting point. Please feel free to post links you find. This is for sharing ideas.
1. http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/...n11101_fm.html
(same study, different journal)
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed
3. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/he...ex=1097467200&
4. http://ijahsp.nova.edu/articles/Vol2...utz-prayer.htm
5. http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm
6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed
7. http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2...05-prayer.html
8. http://www.mercola.com/article/prayer/dossey.htm
9. http://www.texnews.com/1998/religion/med1003.html
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