Lumbar back pain

[Nutty]

Hola Guys

My turn for a moan.

These last few days I have had awful pain when I wake up in the morning, in fact most nights I am woken up because of it.

I am OK when I get up but it is laying down that is causing the problem, I cannot lay on my side, back or front without immense discomfort and pain (depending on how I hold my body).

I started my Yoga again last night and I know it is not this because this has been happening for over a week now.

I have never had a problem sleeping (since I had my memory foam) but now I am just not getting any sleep, if I bring my legs into a foetus position it is slightly better - could I have strained anything you think, will this pass or should I go and see someone about it. I am starting to get annoyed with this because I am not getting enough rest, starting to become the house wanderer that I once was

This morning I slept a bit because I raised my head and legs on my bed and this was comfortable so I managed to get a few hours kip, I don't fancy sleeping raised up every night.

Hope everyone else is OK

Nutty

[briarrose]

I'm sorry to hear about the pain you have. I think lower back pain is harder to deal with than upper back pain. When my lower back hurts, I usually get a stack of pillows and put my feet up on them when I sleep. This takes pressure and weight off of your lower back. This may not work if it's curve pain, but it always works for my muscle pain.

[Nutty]

Raising Head and Feet

Hola Briarrose

Thanks for the reply. I really cannot tell at the moment if this is muscle pain or not - my curve was never lumbar, I had surgery for a thoracic curve in 1989, however, I have always suffered with lumbar pain every since the surgery - I was diagnosed with Facet Joint Syndrome as well in 1989 but nobody told us this and I only found this out in 2004 when I asked for a copy of all my medical records, I noticed this diagnosis when reading everything the Drs had said.

This new pain has only just started and it is baffling me because it is every morning and because it is morning, after I have just rested for 8 hours, that it is bugging me.

Is this the pain that you feel when a disc has almost run out of juice and the vertebrae are now fusing together naturally?

I saw a Dr here in Spain in 2004 who said that my L2/L3 would eventually (could be 6 months, could be years) fuse together because the disc is wearing out - I wonder if that is what is happening and this is the pain I feel, which might help explain why I only feel it when I am in a relaxed state rather than an active state.

I have a bed which does hi/lo proifiling, so I raise my head and my legs and the stick massage on, doesn't seem to help - standing with my legs as wide open as possible always feels nice though.

Take care, thanks and all the best

Nutty

[Pooka1]

Nutty, I had a disc dissolve resulting in two vertebrae fusing on their own. It was either a 0 or a 10, there or absent, in my case. Nothing in-between.

I actually went to chiro in desperation. He was honest enough to admit the fusion was happening and that what he could do for me was massage the muscles essentially. No subluxation mumbo-jumbo. I also went to PT for exercises to build my muscles for support.

The pain went away completely when the vertebrae fused.

It is likely I injured the disc sitting incorrectly in a series of intense dressage (riding) lessons I took. I am very careful to get high level instruction now with folks who know what the heck they are doing. I have since ridden thousands more hours and have had no issues whatsoever with my back.

Good luck.

sharon

[SIsForSarah]

Question for Pooka1 (sharon)

Hi Sharon,

Even though I did have surgery for scoliosis back in 1990 (fused from T5 to L2), this thread caught my attention because I have lumbar pain right now. Originally it was constant pressing on a nerve (from a herniated disk). A CT scan shows that the disk is still herniated, but now I have pain more like you describe - either a 0 or a 10. I get the pain mostly when I stand up after lying down.

I'm curious as to:
1. When you experienced your pain?
2. How your chiropractor was able to tell that the disk was dissolving and the vertebrae were fusing?
3. How long did it take to dissolve?

Thanks in advance for any information you can give me.

- Sarah

[Pooka1]

Hi Sharon,

Even though I did have surgery for scoliosis back in 1990 (fused from T5 to L2), this thread caught my attention because I have lumbar pain right now. Originally it was constant pressing on a nerve (from a herniated disk). A CT scan shows that the disk is still herniated, but now I have pain more like you describe - either a 0 or a 10. I get the pain mostly when I stand up after lying down.

I'm curious as to:
1. When you experienced your pain?
2. How your chiropractor was able to tell that the disk was dissolving and the vertebrae were fusing?
3. How long did it take to dissolve?

Thanks in advance for any information you can give me.

- Sarah

Hi Sarah,

First, just to be clear, I do not have scoliosis to my knowledge. So this isn't secondary to that condition or surgery to correct it. As far as anyone can tell, it is a sports injury from incorrect riding technique, likely at sit trot. I suspect that if I continued riding there for several years that my entire lumbar region would be naturally fused by now.

1. When you experienced your pain?

It seemed random but I suppose it wasn't. I never had the wherewithal to analyze it because of how much it hurt when it hurt. It was debilitating in the sense that I would involuntarily scream out no matter where I was, at least at first. At work, in public, etc. Like a knife being stuff into my back.

2. How your chiropractor was able to tell that the disk was dissolving and the vertebrae were fusing?

X-ray. I could see the two vertebrae very close together compared to the other spacings. The chiro seemed to know it would dissolve/resolve on it's own eventually. Nobody at any point suggested surgery. And indeed I have never had even a twinge after it stopped hurting.

3. How long did it take to dissolve?

A few months after onset of pain if I recall correctly. I'm going to say less than six months but it was ca. 1992 and that's a long time for me to remember such things.

Good luck,

sharon

[SIsForSarah]

Thanks Sharon, that helps alot! I'm seeing my doctor for recent CT scan results on Monday and I'm sure she can see if the spacing is closer together and so is a dissolving disk. Thanks again for your help.

-Sarah

[Nutty]

Hola Sharon

Thanks for the reply, I am getting pretty desperate myself here too - I am now awake at 6:30 every morning because I just cannot lay there, tossing and turning, might as well get up and crawl the net! It is now 8am here and me being up at this time is unheard of, I was so frustrated and annoyed that I got up, I will try and lay on the sofa later and get some more kip.

I don't ride horses so I guess I am OK on that front

I am now in the process of trying to find someone in Spain who can either diagnose or help me one way or another, all I do know right now is that I cannot put up with this for much longer.

If the disc is wearing out and this is the pain I feel, I wish it would hurry up and run out!

Thanks for your reply

Nutty

[Susie*Bee]

Dear Nutty-- been thinking of you and your sleeplessness... that is so miserable, to be tired but unable to sleep because of pain. I hope you've been able to locate a specialist that you can see soon. I'll echo what briarrose said about using pillows, but try elevating your knees with a pillow or two, while you're lying on your back. That is a little similar to lying in the fetal position-- and it gives your lower back and hips a more natural resting position. When I had lumbar aching prior to my surgery I found it helped to curl up too--kind of stretched the spine out or something. If that doesn't help, at least try to see your family doctor soon, if you can't see the specialist for awhile. He/she may have some other avenue for you to cope with this. When I was about 4 or 5 weeks post-op I started having terrible pains in my legs during the night, preventing me from sleeping. The pain was centered "behind my knees" sort of, but radiated on from there. It was almost like cramping and yet wasn't. I ended up going to see my surgeon so they could make sure there wasn't clotting or something else really serious happening... there wasn't. He prescribed neurontin for me, and after that got into my system it ended that problem and I was able to sleep. I remember trying to do without it after awhile and the pain resumed. By the time I was weaning off my pain medication, around 5 months post-op, I also weaned off the neurontin and all was well. Anyway, that's what I'd do if I were you--get to a specialist, try elevating your knees, and see your regular doctor in the meantime to see if there's a medication that can help you find peace enough to sleep. Best wishes!

[Nutty]

Hola Susie*Bee

Sorry for the late response, not been having a good time of it lately and now my husband had got sick!

I have tried raising with pillows and cushions - I have a hi/lo profiling adjustable electric bed with memory foam and a massage pack - nothing is working so far, when I get into bed after a long day I am fine but I wake 5-6 hours later in agony and have to get up and sit in my chair.

I called a hospital here and it is now a week later and no reply, that is just so frustrating, here they are advertising on the internet and I call and leave a message for their orthopaedic department to contact me and they just can't be bothered!

It didn't help that I slipped on some gravel while walking the other night and cut all my knee, went down with a bang which really didn't help the lumbar pains!

If I don't get anywhere soon then I will fly to the UK and see my consultant there.

Thanks for your advice and help

Much love

[Nutty]

Hola

I am still having my sleeping saga with the lumbar pain.

I have been doing a new therapy during the past 2 weeks called Bowen Technique and I have had 2 sessions in the past 2 weeks - she has really helped me, my legs are now the same length and my pelvis is back in position, I had a problem after my first session as the pain was even worse!

However, I am now feeling better and sleeping an extra hour since the treatment started - I now get 4 hours in one session! Wooo Hoooo

My body feels strange because I have been so used to my muscles being in the wrong position and therefore compensating for that the whole time, now I feel taller, straighter and very, very odd

I go for my next therapy on Tuesday again and I am looking forward to it.

Oh yeah forgot to mention, my breathing pain has now gone!

Thanks for your support and I will let you know how I get on, I have a number for a surgeon also so I look forward to seeing what he has to say about the lumbar pain (I am still sticking with disc pain).

Nutty

[SIsForSarah]

Hi Nutty,

I'm so glad to hear you're getting some relief! What is the Bowen Technique? It sounds great.

I noticed we had similar fusions done about the same time (mine's a little longer and a year later) - I wonder if there are others like us who are started to have lower back problems now.

Hope you continue to get relief from that technique!

- Sarah

[Nutty]

Hola Sarah

I hope you don't mind me posting a link about Bowen, I have written about it on my website, it was recommended to me by a pal who has Cerebral Palsy and Scoliosis
http://www.scoliosisnutty.com/bowen-therapy.php

Have you got a Harrington rod?

On my Yahoo Group the majority of us who had harringtons are suffering with lumbar back pain, especially from the donor site (has been the brunt of all my pain since surgery) and flatback syndrome, do you suffer from this, my flatback is not as bad as some I have met.

Thanks for the post, I go for my next session tomorrow and she will be working different muscles.

[SIsForSarah]

Hi Nutty,

Thanks for the link - the Bowen Technique seems really interesting, though the closest practitioner to me seems to be 2 hours away. I may contact that person though and see if they know someone in my area.

I do have a Harrington rod, but I don't think I have flatback (I don't lean forward, and have no trouble walking or standing). My big problem is sitting because I have a herniated disc (L5/S1, so not near my fusion) pressing on a nerve and it presses harder when I sit.

I'm assuming by donor site, you mean the part of my hip that was used as bone graft for my fusion? I used to ache there quite a bit the first few years after my surgery, but haven't had any problems with that area in years.

I think my problem may be disc degeneration in the levels below the fusion (degenerated discs tend to herniate more easily). I've had this herniated disc for 6 months now and I'm started to get really frustrated, especially since the waiting time to see a surgeon here is going to be months at this point.

Thanks again for the information on the Bowen Technique and hope it continues to help you!

- Sarah

[Nutty]

Hola

I just noticed you are in Canada - long distance from me in Spain

Shame that the practitioner is so far from you, I hope they can help with a solution.

Yes we are talking about the same area of the hip, maybe mine will ease over more time then, I am using the Bowen Ease oil and that has helped, I can let my practitioner touch me around that area now, whereas before I wouldn't allow anyone to do that - it is still very sore, however, and it has been since my surgery in 1989.

I have DDD in the disc below my fusion also L2/L3 and the new pain I have been experiencing makes me wonder if that disc has finally given up the ghost as it just started hurting one day and has never gone - I am only getting 4 hours sleep per night in one session before I have to get out of bed and walk around, the pain then eases and I can lay down but not on my bed on the spare bed!

I am waiting for my insurance details before I go and see the new Dr in Marbella, my previous Dr said that my discs would run out of juice one day (in 2004) and that the vertebrae would naturally fuse with the one above it and providing it doesn't fuse in an awkward position it should be pain free - I have yet to find that out, I just hope he doesn't send me for an MRI where I have to lay down because I can't right now, feels like someone is pulling my spinal cord making me arch my back, but I can't do that too well so consequently it hurts a fair bit to lay down with legs flat, I am not too bad with knees bent.

Sorry to hear that you are struggling with the herniated disc, does heat help a herniated disc - I always enjoy heat on my muscles and pains. I also drink ginseng, vanilla and blackcurrant tea to help ease my weary joints - its nice too

I hope you can get to see someone soon hun

Nutty