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Thread: Rolfing vs. Scroth vs. Yoga vs. etc

  1. #31
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    Hi trcylynn

    Hi,

    One inexpensive modality you could try would be the Alexander Technique.
    Do you know about it? I'm a certified teacher in New York City. Around here, where everything is fairly expensive, a 45 minute session usually costs $75. In other parts of the country it's considerably less. Because it's not well known I give a free trial session. You can't go lower than that!
    The Alexander Technique teaches how to move more easily, with less tension and compression.
    As far as training goes, a certified teacher of this technique goes through well over 1600 hours of training. Definitely worth a try. You could contact me and I could tell you ways of finding a teacher.
    Best of luck to you,
    Mark
    markjosefsberg.com

  2. #32
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    Mark,

    Nice ad (http://markjosefsberg.com/ leads to a non-paid site - so NOT professional - http://home.earthlink.net/~markjaye/1/). Earthlink ... ewww.

    What can you claim your modality actually *does* for a structural scoli curve? This, I HAVE to read ... do tell.

    Oh, wait ... I did. http://www.alexandertechnique.com/

    Your OWN site says:

    "Will It Help Me?

    It will help if you:

    -Sit at a desk or in front of a computer all day.
    -If you've been watching the evening news!
    -If you have poor posture, or think you have poor posture.
    -If you suffer with neck pain, back pain, stress, headaches, RSI, muscular, joint or breathing problems.
    -If you want to present yourself with more ease and confidence in social and business situations.
    -If you feel 'stressed out'.
    -If you sing or perform on a musical instrument."


    Good LORD ... I must have just THOUGHT I had "poor posture" and/or I was "stressed out". Maybe my SRS surgeon was wrong that I needed surgery. I'm SURE you know better.

    Pffbbbt, I say; just more snake oil. If anyone wonders why alternative treatments are so unwelcome here, *thanks*, Mark. You illustrated the point nicely (and thanks for bringing up how my pics were stolen by the chiro ... good job!)
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
    Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


    VIEW MY X-RAYS
    EMAIL ME

  3. #33
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    Jun 2008
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    107
    This thread is posted under "Non-Surgical Treatment" where alternative treatment actually is welcome.

  4. #34
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    Location
    Houston, TX
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    bas,

    This was tacked on to an old thread where my surgical photos were stolen by a chiro. (before your time)

    Read up.
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
    Pre-op ±53°, Post-op < 20°
    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


    VIEW MY X-RAYS
    EMAIL ME

  5. #35
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    Apr 2009
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    9

    Very happy with Schroth

    My 15 year old daughter has about a 40% curve. We initially went to the Clear Institute doc in Hartford - it was good in some ways but too arduous for our family or daughter to handle for more than the 10 months we did it. We then found someone we love who does Schroth and that's been working well.

    The exercises are totally customized to her curves so she stays strong and lengthened in the places where the scoliosis would tend to let her get weak and atrophied, her curve has improved a tiny bit, her rotation has improved a little bit more, she's feeling less back pain and she's definitely feeling better about how she looks. And she's got core strength and great abs! As her Mom I feel great that she's got a tool that she can take with her into life to deal with her scoliosis - and the discipline and confidence that develops from improving her own health through exercise. Probably there are a lot of other good methods out there too but this one is time tested, very specific to scoliosis and works for us!

  6. #36
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    Apr 2009
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    9

    Love Schroth and adding in Rolfing

    I just wrote to say that we love Schroth, but I forgot to add that we're about to try Rolfing too, just as an extra thing to keep her loose and limber. If she likes it I'm hoping the two techniques will work well together.

  7. #37
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    Jan 2010
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    Ontario
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    My daughter is 11 and started physio 3 weeks ago and is getting a brace on Wed. Is there a difference between regular physio for scoliosis compared to the scroth treatment?? Or are they both good? She is also active in martial arts....she goes 3 - 4 time a week....does that help?

    thank you
    Samantha
    Quote Originally Posted by swimmergirlsmom View Post
    Hi there.
    After much research, we decided to take the Schroth exercise treatment approach for my daughter and the cost was $100 an hour. We have been pleased with the results. We live in San Diego, CA and have traveled up to Palo Alto for two different weekends of Schroth Treatment/training. I think it would be overwhelming to learn everything all in one week. My daughter started her Schroth routine the beginning of February and I highly recommend it as a long term non-surgical approach to helping your scoliosis. You don't just learn physical therapy exercises, but you learn how to approach your "daily living" so that you are always benefiting/improving your spine (like when driving in the car, at the movies, cleaning the house, etc) because there are small movements/changes in posture that you can do that will give you great results.
    Please feel free to send me a private message if you would like to discuss in more detail!

  8. #38
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    Jun 2008
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    107

    Schroth

    Hi-

    I do not know about regular PT for scoliosis, as we have never tried it. Schroth
    focuses on specific exercises for specific curves. For example, if she has a right thoracic curve/left lumbar, the exercises for her would avoid anything that would enhance those curves, while working to open up/strengthen the upper left thoracic and right lumbar. If you want more details, call Scoliosis Rehab, or one of the other established Schroth clinics conducted by PT's. They will be able to give you a more detailed answer.

    Brooke

  9. #39
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    Thank you, you answered my question..the exercises she has prescibled now are suposed to strengthen those areas.

    thank you, I will look into it some more.....

    Samantha

    Quote Originally Posted by bas2101 View Post
    Hi-

    I do not know about regular PT for scoliosis, as we have never tried it. Schroth
    focuses on specific exercises for specific curves. For example, if she has a right thoracic curve/left lumbar, the exercises for her would avoid anything that would enhance those curves, while working to open up/strengthen the upper left thoracic and right lumbar. If you want more details, call Scoliosis Rehab, or one of the other established Schroth clinics conducted by PT's. They will be able to give you a more detailed answer.

    Brooke

  10. #40
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    Restarting a discussion about non-surgical treatment over here

    Rather than starting a new thread I thought I would tack on to this one as the discussion I've been having on another thread seems to fit better here.

    How do Alexander Technique and Rolfing strengthen muscles?

    Let's start with Alexander Technique. Imagine that a student of AT, when moving from standing to sitting and from sitting to standing uses one leg more than another. In my experience each of my scoliotic students exhibit this difficulty to a greater degree than my students without scoliosis.

    The theory of Alexander Technique is that through lessons with an AT teacher the scoliotic student may begin to recognize their habit of using one leg more than the other in sitting and standing. With help from the AT teacher they would then learn to sit and stand in a more balanced way, using their legs more evenly. In this case the leg that was bearing more of the weight of the body would begin to bear less, and the leg that was not bearing as much weight would begin to bear more. This would then lead to the less active, weaker leg becoming stronger.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOscoliosis View Post
    Quick question as an aside: how do you create those bubbles that quote what other posters have written?

    In response to your question flerc about the mirror work I do. F. M. Alexander (who developed the Alexander Technique) used mirrors when he was first working on himself. By the time he had become a sought after teacher I don't believe that he was using mirrors much with his students (occasionally but not often). In the school where I was trained we used mirrors to help with our work from time to time but it wasn't a big part of our process.

    So my use of mirrors is both a continuation of the original way that Alexander developed his approach, and also something new because some of the activities I do with mirrors are not part of the standard AT work. I think mirrors are a very useful tool for those of us with scoliosis. We can see in a mirror what is really happening in our posture and compare the visual reality with our proprioceptive sense of how we are.

    Flerc also posted a question about Alexander Technique vs. Feldenkrais vs. Osteopathy vs. Structural Integration vs. Chiropractic etc. One thing I have noticed, which I think is regrettable, is that practitioners from different disciplines have a habit of criticizing each others' approach. And, unfortunately, practitioners within the same discipline criticize each other too. I would prefer not to do that, and so I tend to avoid comparing my disciplines with others.

    I have studied a wide range of movement related disciplines, and received treatment from many different manual therapists. I wouldn't want to get into a debate over which one is better than the others, because it runs the risk of appearing disrespectful. A lot of it depends on what the individual's goals are and who they are working with. Rather I would say that Alexander Technique and Structural Integration suit my needs best.

    Alexander Technique is my favourite way of improving my proprioception and my habits of posture and movement. Structural Integration is my favourite way of receiving help for those parts of my body that I have a hard time understanding and improving.

    Yes, you're right: Feldenkrais did have lessons with F. M. Alexander, and actually one of my teachers, Rika Cohen has told me that Feldenkrais also had many AT lessons with her.
    Toscoliosis, sorry for asking about other disciplines, certainly I only wanted to know about the differences they have (and I don’t understand very well) leading you to choice its as the bests. I must to compare all the non surgical methods, to know which is the best in each of these points

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...classification

    Alexander is for me in the top in points j), k) and p) .. I have never considered it so much f) but I should.
    Certainly in the begining Feldenkrais seemed to me the more respetable of all because is the invention of a scientist (as Rolfing) but then I realized that science has to much to learn about these issues yet and someone like Alexander must to be an intuitive genius.. and. also an artist (musician).. I'm sure that a great sensibilility is needed.
    I compare both with Eutonia because I believe are focused in those points.
    I compared Rolfing with other therapies focused in b). In fact Ostheopaty is focused in so many other points.. it would have be better the comparation with Myofascal Release.

    But of course something as Rolfing is directly working in at least some of the first causes in an integral way to improve the relationship of all those components.. improving then the Structure. Probably in a most indirect way Alexander does the same.. I never realized that may strenght the muscles..
    You really have clear concepts and good ideas. Is great to talk with you.!
    Pleas think in what I told you about the inclinated plane and vertebral aligment.. I’m sure that the key of the complete knowledge is there.

  12. #42
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    Hello flerc and others,
    I hope you're enjoying this run up to the end of the year. We've had a very mild Winter so far in Toronto, which I like. Soon I will be shoveling snow again.

    I don't mind at all being asked about other disciplines. I just tend to avoid those questions often and wanted to explain why.

    Yes, I find it helpful to put things into categories too to help understand them better. I put different treatment approaches for scoliosis into these categories:
    1. Proprioception improvement
    2. Manual therapy - structural integration, osteopathy, massage therapy, chiropractic, etc.
    3. Exercise regime - yoga, tai chi, pilates, Schrott exercises, etc.

    In my work on myself (I call it my scoliosis self-care) I make sure that I always have these three things going on.

    You have two sections in your classifications and I notice how many categories you have in the first section. Personally I look at the body more as a whole. For example, it is impossible to affect muscles without affecting the joints they cross or the fascia that surrounds and separates them. Many practitioners use the term myo-fascia because they are reluctant to talk about muscles and fascia separately, the relationship between the two tissues being so close. To give another example, as soon as you make a structurally significant change to a vertebra in the spine, the soft tissue structures that attach to that vertebra will necessarily be altered. The reason I like AT and Structural Integration is that they have this holistic view of things.

    Here are more thoughts on your question about lying on an inclined plane and the straightening affect it has. I also believe that looking at differences between lying and standing is an important part of diagnosis and treatment. There is a puzzle to be solved, but I do have a hesitation about your theory: It's true that when my scoliosis patients are lying down their bodies usually appear straighter than when they are standing. However, when I palpate their bodies while they are lying down the same asymmetries of shape and tone which were visible in standing are still very much present although in a somewhat disguised form. I don't think that it is enough to attempt to leave their look of equilibrium undisturbed as they come to standing, because too many asymmetries will kick in again as they stand in gravity. Does that make sense? In my opinion things have to be significantly changed, and for me here are two great places to begin:

    1. Their proprioception, sense of balance, thinking in movement need improvement.
    2. The asymmetries in the shape and tone of their soft tissue structures need to be unwound through holistic, manual therapy.

    Many manual therapists share your interest in the difference in a person's structure between lying down and standing. Many work with this sequence in a session: they look at the patient in standing, work with them lying down, then look at them in standing again and see how much of the changes have staid. For some practitioners, this sequence can be repeated many times in one session.

    Best!
    - TOscoliosis

  13. #43
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    Tocoscolios, winter, what a lucky!! I hate the hot
    As ever all what you say has so much sense for me. I'm so much busy now so I only may copy this link http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...ight=edf+flerc when I say why I believe that keeping the spine traight may be good.. probably not necesary with a brace, who knows.. I also want to know what you believe about the exercise I mentioned about fighting against the gravity force in the first post..

    See you

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    I also want to know what you believe about the exercise I mentioned about fighting against the gravity force in the first post..

    See you
    I'm sorry,
    I'm not sure exactly which exercise you're referring to. Would you mind reposting your description here? I think it was in the other thread, but I didn't find it when I went to have a look just now ...

  15. #45
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    Sorry, Joshua, I was so short of time these days.. this is the ‘exercise’ I was talking about:

    ‘It would be also possible to combine EDF with exercise that requires the muscles to fight against the gravity force to keep the spine straight, when some weight is put in the shoulders and a walk is performed with the spine straight (some therapy as Clear do the same?). I think that in this way muscles not only would not be suffering atrophy, but can do an exercise demanding so much the muscles that hold the vertical.
    I realized time ago that an amazing force is developed doing some activity, but only for that activity, when I practiced Jiu jitsu and I had to fight with an Olympic weightlifter. I was really afraid, looking her amazing torso, arms, back, but in the floor he had not much force, even I beated him. So I can not imagine other exercise more specific to strength those specific muscles. I think that as jiu jitsu people has an amazing force to fight, weightlifters to lifting weights, swimmers to swim.. people doing these exercise should has an amazing force to keep her back straight.’

    My general idea is that it should to be more easy to the spine to improve being in an straight position all the time, that’s why I thought in EDF, but of course to loose all mobility may not be good..
    I thought that strengthening the muscles implied in holding the spine should to be good, and applying this principle, this should to be a good exercise for those muscles to perform that task. But of course posture is something more difficult and not all is a matter of tone.

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