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Thread: Rolfing vs. Scroth vs. Yoga vs. etc

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    105

    Rolfing vs. Scroth vs. Yoga vs. etc

    Hi everyone,

    In the next month or so I will be with a new health insurance company and making more money. I have looked at my new potential budget and realize I can now afford physical therapy and one other thing.

    I have read rolfing (at $150 approx. per session), Scroth (at $1500 or whatever in one weekend), Yoga (at $150 approx. per private session with an instructor specializing in yoga for scoliosis), and pilates (at $30 a class) all help with scoliosis.

    I cannot afford them all and do not want to try out each one once and see what I like most. I want to try one method the full time (ex. rolfing 10/13 sessions or a full weekend at a Scroth clinic) and see if it helps.

    Any advice/recommendations you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I am very excited for the opportunity to try new things but want to use my money as wisely as possible.

    Therefore, if you had to choose just one (either rolfing, private yoga, private pilates, or scroth) which would you choose and why?

    Thank you!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    416
    Hi,

    It's been awhile since I've visited this forum... but I saw this post and thought I could offer some insight... for what it's worth.

    1. Yoga teachers do not receive training or knowledge to safely address musculoskeletal dysfunctions. They get about 30 hours of anatomy education in a typical 200 hour training... the rest of the time is learning poses, modifications, philosophy, history, sequencing and such. We cannot make the mistake of once again creating a generic, one-size-fits-all approach to scoliosis management/treatment and that's what these teachers "specializing in yoga for scoliosis" are doing... As they don't have nearly the education required to understand the complexities of spinal/pelvic mechanics involved and any other potential pathology/condition present with the scoliosis, or causing it.

    Don't get me wrong, my wife is a registered yoga teacher among other professions, and although I support yoga as a form of movement and such, she would be the first to agree that unless a yoga teacher also has an education in pt or the like they shouldn't be dealing with such conditions.

    Therefore, my point, if you are going to be paying $150 for a private yoga session you're getting ripped off. Unless they are a PT there is no justifiable reason for them to charge that much for their level of education and knowledge... They're just capitalizing off the latest trend and popularity of it.

    2. Although pilates has become quite popular lately and many unsubstantiated claims are made about its usefulness, I wouldn't choose this myself. Although the price is much more reasonable for what you're getting, the reality of creating more compression and rigidity into the "core" is questionable at best. The last thing you want to do is start creating immobility (a.k.a. - "stability") in the pelvis and spine. Anyhow, ... I'll spare you from that rant.

    3. It seems that although PT would/could be of use... $1500 for one weekend is ridiculous! What is a person going to realistically accomplish in that short amount of time? Why is it so expensive to be shown how to do specific movements, stretching and exercises?

    I do believe Scroth has a lot of value, but the drawback to it is that it works to simply manage the curves, which necessitates a life-long daily commitment. It would be useful to at least try to address the potential impetus for the scoliosis (where is the obstacle/restriction/abnormality in development, etc.).

    4. That's where Rolfing/Structural Integration might be helpful. Cost is reasonable (although I personally think $150 is a bit high).


    Bottom line... To get the most for your money and the level of expertise, go for the Rolfing or PT... Or better yet, go to a PT who is also certified in Rolfing/SI.

    Kind Regards and best of luck/wishes with whatever you choose.
    Structural

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    105
    Thank you for the insight. I am very hesitant to quick throw down money to anyone that's for sure. How would I go about finding someone that is a PT and rolfer/yoga person/etc? I know I'm hesitant to try rolfing again since the first time was very painful and the person did not seem well educated on scoliosis and what all is involved. I don't like walking into a room when someone is supposed to "treat me" feeling like I have more knowledge about the subject than they do. I would like to find someone that has extensive knowledge in all areas but so far have had no luck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    36
    Hi there.
    After much research, we decided to take the Schroth exercise treatment approach for my daughter and the cost was $100 an hour. We have been pleased with the results. We live in San Diego, CA and have traveled up to Palo Alto for two different weekends of Schroth Treatment/training. I think it would be overwhelming to learn everything all in one week. My daughter started her Schroth routine the beginning of February and I highly recommend it as a long term non-surgical approach to helping your scoliosis. You don't just learn physical therapy exercises, but you learn how to approach your "daily living" so that you are always benefiting/improving your spine (like when driving in the car, at the movies, cleaning the house, etc) because there are small movements/changes in posture that you can do that will give you great results.
    Please feel free to send me a private message if you would like to discuss in more detail!

  5. #5
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    Jun 2008
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    5

    vs Graston Technique + Chiropractic

    It saddens me that this forum is very anti-chiropractic. I am not a traditional chiropractor so I will incorporate anything that helps the patient such as fascia/soft tissue work and physical therapy exercises. I strongly feel that joint alignment is an important part of the equation in conjunction with home exercises & stretching such as yoga. Especially with scoliosis patients, you will find weak and short muscles that correlate with joint misalignments.

    Graston Technique uses metal instruments unlike other manual techniques to break up the fascia and scar tissue-like adhesions in shortened muscles of a scoliotic curvature. I respect Rolfing and use many of the same principles to get the same results with scoliosis as well as other conditions. I actually document an idiopathic scoliosis patient with reducing back pain as a primary goal but the changes to her scoliosis were very noticable.


    Idiopathic Scoliosis Success Story With Before X-ray

    You can find more information about Graston Technique on my clinic website or the official Graston Technique website.

    The conservative therapy can be anything from yoga, Rolfing or chiropractic. I am mainly informing people that Graston Technique is a great option similar to Rolfing.

    Dr. Tony Tsai
    ChiroWorks Care Center
    Last edited by chiroworks; 07-10-2008 at 03:17 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiroworks
    It saddens me that this forum is very anti-chiropractic. I am not a traditional chiropractor so I will incorporate anything that helps the patient such as fascia/soft tissue work and physical therapy exercises. I strongly feel that joint alignment is an important part of the equation in conjunction with home exercises & stretching such as yoga. Especially with scoliosis patients, you will find weak and short muscles that correlate with joint misalignments.

    Graston Technique uses metal instruments that I find are more effective than using other manual techniques to break up the fascia and scar tissue-like adhesions in shortened muscles of a scoliotic curvature. I respect Rolfing and use many of the same principles to get the same results with scoliosis as well as other conditions. I actually document an idiopathic scoliosis patient with reducing back pain as a primary goal but the changes to her scoliosis were very noticable. I still need her to get x-rays for the website though. Her daughter actually responded much faster since her scoliosis was caught earlier. I was shocked how few treatments it took for her daughter.

    Unfortunately, the before x-ray taken by another chiropractor was very poor quality.
    Idiopathic Scoliosis Success Story With Before X-ray

    You can find more information about Graston Technique on my clinic website or the official Graston Technique website.

    It is my opinion that surgery is such an invasive procedure with significant risks. A surgical procedure may not be reversible either. I just want to urge people to try more conservative therapy before resorting to surgery whenever the patient is not in immediate danger. The conservative therapy can be anything from yoga, Rolfing or chiropractic.

    Dr. Tony Tsai
    ChiroWorks Care Center
    GET *MY* SURGICAL PHOTOS OFF YOUR $^#% WEBSITE, NOW!

    edited: ... actually I broke the link, so no rush now ...
    Last edited by txmarinemom; 07-09-2008 at 03:30 PM.
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
    Pre-op 53, Post-op < 20
    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


    VIEW MY X-RAYS
    EMAIL ME

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Location
    Houston, TX
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    The CA Board of Chiropractic Examiners frowns on theft.

    Dr. Tsai, you ignored the notice on my surgical photo .ppt that the presentation is MINE - and requires permission to use in whole or in part. It CERTAINLY was not for use on YOUR website as a scare tactic for what happens when people don't elect your treatment.

    I've spoken with my lawyer, and you can expect him to be in touch.

    How dare you join this forum and rip off my photos to promote your business!

    BTW, I just got off the phone with the California Board of Chiropractic Examiners (Enforcement Division), and they were stunned at what you did. They are mailing paperwork out to me today to file a complaint.

    I can easily show identical targets for the presentation link here and your website - and that the target for both is to MY private storage area.

    All the screen shots and documentation I have gathered (they encouraged me to send as much as possible) will be submitted with the complaint form. Th CA State Board also just called me back to encourage I report it as a cyber crime, as well (so tomorrow, both the FBI and the Texas Attorney General's office will be getting calls).

    Between the criminal charges and the civil suit, you're going to be far too busy - or unable - to practice, Dr. Tsai.

    What kind of idiot steals a presentation ONLY posted in this forum and then posts their website *containing* the stolen link?? I'd have never known you were out there using MY photos. Thanks for your post!

    Everyone else, sorry, but the photos are offline. I know anything on the Internet is fair game in most cases, but this "professional" stepped WAY out of line.

    I am LIVID.

    Pam
    Last edited by txmarinemom; 07-09-2008 at 06:07 PM.
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
    Pre-op 53, Post-op < 20
    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


    VIEW MY X-RAYS
    EMAIL ME

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
    Posts
    285

    Whoa!

    He dunno who he mess wid!!!
    FeliciaFeliciaFelicia
    10/24/00 posterior fusion T4-L4 at age 57
    8/5/05 posterior surgery for spinal stenosis at L4-L5; laminectomy and fusion
    5/14/07 posterior revision with fusion to sacrum
    2/11/08 anterior discectomy L5-S1, and reinforcement of fusion with plate attached to L5-S1
    3/9/2011 and 3/11/2011 revision surgery with Dr. Lenke, St. Louis - complete revision and fusion with instrumentation from T1 to sacrum, one lumbar osteotomy.

  9. #9
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    Jul 2008
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    408
    Go get him!

    And Pam, thanks again for your help.

    Brad

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    ny
    Posts
    1,750
    Of all the sh** I've seen go down, this was the lowest!


    GET HIM is right! (and I KNOW you will, Pam).
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 15, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently holding around 26 degrees)
    Under care of Dr. Randal Betz since 2004

    Also mom to Nicole (22) and Danny (25)

    Link to VBS Website: www.vertebralstapling.com

    Janet Cerrone, PA to Dr. Betz janetcerrone@spineandscoliosis.com or (609) 912-1500

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    6,250
    Quote Originally Posted by chiroworks
    It saddens me that this forum is very anti-chiropractic.
    If you wonder why this happens, you might want to read your own post, but from the eyes of a patient tired of being ripped off by unethical charlatans.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    DFW area of Texas
    Posts
    72
    Wow, Pam, what a gal! I, of course, read his posting before coming to yours and I thought, "he is actually advertising on our forum". What else can I say about that but how glad I am that you caught it in time.

    To offer some EXPERIENCE about the different procedures, I am not familiar with Schroth so won't comment. Early in my adult idiopathic scoliosis, in about 2002, I was seeing a chiropractor, who actually was the first person to tell me that I had scoliosis. I didn't know this and had been to many doctors who either didn't know or didn't say. At my last treatment from him, he said that he was hurting me more than helping me and stopped the treatments. I'd had about 4 or 5 adjustments up to that point. Next, I found a Rolfer in Dallas and at $100 a pop, I went for 20 visits. Although the treatments were pretty rough, after each one, I would be out of pain, for about a day. After the Rolfer, I joined a Pilates class also in Dallas, and attended regular sessions for approximately 6 months, but saw no improvement and it was fairly costly. Less than the Rolfer though. All this time, the pain was getting worse and the "rib hump" was getting bigger and bigger and it hurt if I leaned against something. I was getting to the point that I would do anything to stop the pain from both the scoliosis and the kyphosis. I received a recommendation to go see Dr. Shelokov and had my first screening with the PA in June of 2003. Surgery followed in August.

    I know that surgery is a huge step and I have been changed for life as I now have mild and sometimes, severe pain. I use a cane to walk as I tend to bend forward with kyphosis. I no longer can square dance, so my social life has suffered immensely. I know by experience that I will never date again. I have returned to work, which is a desk job, and will work as long as I can. But, you know what? For me, surgery was my only choice. But others have had much more success. I believe that age is the biggest factor in the success or not of surgery. I was 61 when I had the first surgery.

    I hope this helps you a little. None of these things you mentioned helped me. I've heard good things about certain exercises that can come only from a surgeon or doctor who is involved with scoliosis. I know of one woman who avoided surgery due to the exercises that given to her by Dr. Shelokov. So that perhaps is another route to consider.
    Diane in Dallas
    Adult Ideopatic Scoliosis (37%) and Kyphosis (65%)
    Surgery #1 8/4/03 - Dr. Shelokov, Plano
    Surg #2 12/8/03 - Dr. Shelokov, Plano
    Surg #3 1/10/05 - Dr. Shelokov, Plano
    Surg #4 9/10/07 - Dr. Viere, Dallas
    Surg #5 1/28/08 - Dr. Viere, Dallas
    Surg #6 4/27/09 - Dr. Viere, Dallas

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    9
    Goodness me, that is shocking I can't believe that chiropractor could do that, how utterly unethical!!! I agree with Linda, it's not surprising that people are sceptical about non-surgical methods when alternative practitioners do this sort of thing. Pam, I hope your lawyers get him good!!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    ny
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    1,750
    Quote Originally Posted by Diane BCSW
    Wow, Pam, what a gal! I, of course, read his posting before coming to yours and I thought, "he is actually advertising on our forum".
    Hi Diane,

    Unfortunately "advertising" happens on our forum far more often than it should. In fact, there is NO place for it on this or any forum and hopefully those in charge will find a way to stop, or at least lessen, these instances. I"m sure it's not an easy task but one worth the effort for sure. People like this quack using Pam's photos without her permission are here for one reason and one reason only - to rip people off. They care NOTHING about members, or their children, with scoliosis.

    Best regards,
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 15, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently holding around 26 degrees)
    Under care of Dr. Randal Betz since 2004

    Also mom to Nicole (22) and Danny (25)

    Link to VBS Website: www.vertebralstapling.com

    Janet Cerrone, PA to Dr. Betz janetcerrone@spineandscoliosis.com or (609) 912-1500

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,757
    Not only did this quack steal my photo link from here, he claims he can (at least in the case he cites) "cure" scoliosis in just a few treatments by 50%! The CA Board of Examiners loved that one too when I told them. Even THEY don't believe that.

    Judging by the way they reacted to the story, and the fact a different person from the Enforcement Division called me back to encourage I report it to law enforcement as a cyber-crime, I'm hopeful this guy will end up with a new "career".

    (... one wearing a headset, asking "Do you want fries with that?")

    First Jutkowitz pops on here to advertise, then this dolt. "This forum is anti-chiropractic"? ... yep. For a reason!

    And, trcylynn ... I am VERY sorry for hijacking your thread, but I'm also VERY glad "Dr. Tsai" was stupid enough to post in response to your question!
    Fusion is NOT the end of the world.
    AIDS Walk Houston 2008 5K @ 33 days post op!


    41, dx'd JIS & Boston braced @ 10
    Pre-op 53, Post-op < 20
    Fused 2/5/08, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, Houston


    VIEW MY X-RAYS
    EMAIL ME

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