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Thread: torso rotation

  1. #61
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    Pooka1

    I believe Scott's original curve was measured at 10 degrees when he was 5.... I think. If it was remeasured by the computer program it might come up different today. Whether that would be more or less then 10 degrees I don't know. Scott's pediatrician noticed his rib hump at age 4 during a routine Adam's test but no x-ray was taken at that time.

    Looking back on this last year I would say that Scott's form during exercise was sloppy. This was largely due to 3 factors.

    A) Scott was very small and just barely fit into the machine
    B) At 7 years old Scott was not fully coordinated
    C) I didn't put a major emphasis on good form because of A and B and I assumed that doing TRS was good enough even without great form. For the most part all I focused on was keeping his movements smooth in order to keep his back safe.

    After his doctor visit on Monday our new focus has become good form on every rep.

    As this video shows the MedX forces good form by locking down the lower body. This lockdown feature is not an accident. If you perform this exercise with sloppy form the lower body and arms do the work and the back goes along for the ride.

    I've already reworked Scott's therapy so that he will sit just as solid as the guy in the MedX video. Put simply I sit close and hold him in place. We tried it on Tuesday and because his lower body was taken out of the equation the weight became twice as hard to lift. The other thing we're focusing on is SLOW MOVEMENTS like the guy in the video. This makes therapy much more challenging because there is no momentum to help push the weight. Slow movements are also safer.
    Last edited by Dingo; 10-20-2011 at 01:12 AM.

  2. #62
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    Small update

    Scott did his TRS tonight and my wife and I spotted him in a way that ensured close to the same form as the guy in the MedX video in the post above.

    We had to drop his weight back to 15 pounds or about 33% of his body weight and even at that amount it was a struggle. We may go back to 13 or 14 pounds.

    The guy in the MedX video is pulling 60 pounds or what looks like approximately 33% of his body weight. You can see on his face that the weight is heavy and he has to work extremely hard to finish his reps.

    So for anyone doing TRS 33% of your body weight might be a good number to work towards. If you can do significantly more you might be engaging the wrong muscles or using momentum.

  3. #63
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    Ouch! That guy looked like he was in a lot of pain doing those exercises. Wow, I don't know if I would even want to attempt a machine like that for the simple fact I'm a big baby. I suppose if you start light and work your way up, but still.... This machine looks different than other Torso Rotation devices that I've seen. It was definitely very specific.

    Dingo, I hope your little guy is stable or corrected. It's good you've got him in the habit of exercising at a young age. Hopefully he'll keep it up in adulthood.

    Like I mentioned before, my youngest son had a small curvature at a very young age that spontaneously corrected. He does have some spina bifida occulta in some of his vertebrae, not sure how many, the doc didn't tell me. It makes me wonder if that isn't somehow related to the original curvature. My son is grown now and works out pretty regularly and is very muscular (not overly muscled, but very toned). I hope he keeps it up.

  4. #64
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    Scott has been doing his torso rotation with "MedX" form and slow movements for 2 weeks. At first he struggled and grunted to lift 33% of his weight. After two weeks it's no trouble at all. We do 3 sets of 15 reps in each direction, 3 times per week.

    Scott weighs about 45 pounds and he lifts 15 pounds. If he increases the amount he lifts by 1 pound per month he will hit 50% of his body weight within the year even if he grows rapidly. Time will tell but I think 50% of his body weight might be where we are headed.

    BTW it takes two adults to spot Scott properly. I sit close and hold his leg with one arm to keep his pelvis stationary. I use my other arm to hold the machine to ensure smooth motion. His mother stands behind both of us and gently applies pressure to Scott's shoulders to make sure he doesn't get out of position and use his arms to do all the work. It sounds complicated but it works very well and it's simple to do. If he was older we could use the MedX which locks down his body but he's far too small.

    For anyone out there doing TRS with a juvenile it takes careful spotting for your child to mimic the movement of the MedX.

    Oh yeah and Happy Halloween! Scott is in the Mickey Mouse Hat, his older brother is wearing the squirrel helmet and glasses. The Pirate and Ninja are kids from across the street. 8-)

    halloween-2011.jpg
    Last edited by Dingo; 11-02-2011 at 01:19 AM.

  5. #65
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    Chair exercise

    [QUOTE=structural75;46779]Stop focusing on strengthening the right side. It will only make matters worse. Those muscles are inactive for a reason. Again, you're fighting your bodies functional response to the scoliosis... What you want to do is focus on lengthening the right side... open it up... stretch it.

    Very interested in Structural75's analysis. I'm ignorant, so please excuse any daft questions. After having done Schroth with my daughter for 4 months, I agree with the above.

    Do rotations to the right in the lower spine (i.e. - sit on a chair or the floor and rotate right looking over your right shoulder... reach your left arm across your body in the front and hold onto the outside of your right knee.)

    The problem here, for a right thoracic, left lumbar double curved patient, would be the increased rib-cage rotation. Certainly works the lumbar, but at the expense of the thoracic?

  6. #66
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    Oops

    I've read more posts now so apologies for the above question...already answered in the subsequent posts.

  7. #67
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    Fantastic explanation

    [QUOTE=structural75;46875]...the rotations are the most important issue to address. Often you'll see rotations increase as the bends decrease from correction (usually bracing)... This is in large part due to the fact that the soft-tissue restrictions involved holding the spine in the bend are not specifically addressed with a brace and therefor as the spine attempts to straighten out from the bracing forces the restriction in the soft-tissue remains but simply changes its effect on the spinal mechanics... causing a rotation because it is still shortened asymmetrically despite the lessening of the curve.

    Explains so much, so well. Thanks.

    Look for one...who integrates and impliments strength, stretching, balance/coordination type work, proprioceptive activities... etc.

    This is how we've been working, great to see another poster--clearly a knowledgeable one--reason it all so well

    The work you do should also be asymmetric, if you find yourself doing exercises that don't speak more to one side or area more than another then ask them why they're not doing it differently. Keep in mind, not everything will entail asymmetric work, but some of it certainly should.

    4 months ago, my daughter's muscular and postural asymmetry was apparent. Schroth (as we interpreted it for ourselves straight from the book itself) was our starting point. As overstretched muscles relaxed and dormant muscles grew, we observed changes to the curves while exercising with the same RAB. We changed the RAB and mixed in more symmetrical work. This, for example, caused less distortion to the LC when working the TC. We'd also read and reasoned that promoting muscular symmetry either side of the spine has a straightening effect on the spine. We seem close to muscular symmetry now (the overstretched musculature has regained some strength now, as well as significant increases on the dormant 'concavities'.) With each muscular gain, proprioception has to shift again (e.g., these last few days, as our 'observing skills' increase, we've identified and resolved insidious or persistent, almost instinctive, asymmetric muscular/scoliotic pulls while doing some exercises.

    PS: we have had no PT, orthopaedic, chiropractor, spine surgeon...no input at all yet on how to do any of this. We did 3wks 2 days of Schroth in London, but the PT was dangerous...basically, we learned how NOT to do Schroth from her.

  8. #68
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    Schroth rotation vs. Torso Rotation method

    Schroth exercises, I believe, only de-rotate on one side of, for example, a thoracic curve. All I know of the Torso Rotation theory is what I've read in this forum thread. Am I correct that TR would have a person with a thoracic curve exercising/rotating/de-rotating both ways?

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