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Thread: Scoliosis and TAMARS treatment

  1. #106
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    Mar 2004
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    Structural,

    TAMARS is the topic of this thread is it not????? I asked you a very direct question about 70 posts ago as to how SI helped resolve your scoliosis in the context of alternative therapies but once again you managed to wiggle your way out of that frying pan and talk ad nauseum about generalities.....and we're still talking about it?????!!!!! My *tiny* query was in response to your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by structural75
    I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand how some of these "alternative" approaches could be effective in many cases (TAMARS, structural integration, etc)
    If you want to discuss SI please feel free to start your own thread and discuss how it may or may not help scoliosis and how there are presently no studies or x-rays pointing to it's efficacy but PLEASE let poor Ray have his moment in the sun.
    Last edited by Celia; 06-03-2007 at 11:00 AM.

    Canadian eh
    Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

  2. #107
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    416
    You call my posts generalities.. ? Would you really like me to speak in anatomical terms... describing how SI and bracing alike effect the body? Are you educated enough to follow and understand such a discussion?

    In what form would you like me to describe how SI resolved my own curvature? Do you want a play by play on the manipulative work performed or the anatomical explanation of how it changed? Let me know... . There's been no avoidance whatsoever.. . And if you think studies explain "how" something works you're sadly mistaken. Sorry Celia, but I feel no heat at all coming from your line of comments/questioning... . I always respond and often with very "direct" questions of my own, of which you have been unable or unwilling to respond to. ??? I wonder why.???

    Can you explain to me how serial casting and the spinecor works to correct a curvature? And don't give me a study as your answer please.

    My "ad nauseum" reply was in response to yours... where's the confusion? That post 'mentioning' si doesn't sound like a sales pitch to me. And how am I benefiting from being an anonymous member on an international public forum?

    If you could restrain yourself from offering another unwarranted and unproductive insult maybe Ray and others could get back on task. You seem to be as much a distraction as anyone else.

    p.s.-Your false sincerity and sympathy towards Ray isn't fooling anyone. It's obvious you just can't help but to use it as an excuse to trash me. Are you just hungry to attack him again... ? Can't get enough to satisfy your cravings? Here's the first post you put up on this thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Celia Vogel
    Rayknox,

    I don't think anyone needs to pick apart your words to see that your overall message is a bit over the top! Who do you think you're kidding???? You then have the gall to make these assertions without x-rays to back up your claims????? GET REAL!!!!!


    Just the other day I was wondering when we were due for another lively discussion/debate with alternative practitioners making unsubstantiated expensive claims and here we are
    __________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Celia Vogel
    If you want to discuss SI please feel free to start your own thread and discuss how it may or may not help scoliosis and how there are presently no studies or x-rays pointing to it's efficacy but PLEASE let poor Ray have his moment in the sun.
    Wow, you know somehow that there are NO x-rays confirming its effect? Just because I don't have access to the thousands of x-rays around the US and Europe to share with you doesn't mean at all that they don't exist... You're obviously a 'glass half empty' type of person. Don't be a hypocrite... if you won't accept my claims due to lack of evidence being presented on this forum, then you have NO place in making 'assumption' about its complete ineffectiveness without the evidence to prove it. You don't like playing by your own rules very much... .
    __________________
    Last edited by structural75; 06-03-2007 at 12:55 PM.

  3. #108
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    Mar 2004
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    1,140
    Yes, we're having a debate on TAMARS! Get with the program!

    Canadian eh
    Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

  4. #109
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    416
    Are we? ...Do you have a block feature or something that doesn't permit my questions through to you? You haven't answered a single one.

    This is my absolute final post... go ahead, trash away, nows your chance without getting another reply from me.

    I'll be checking back in about 10 - 15 years or so... maybe I'll have some studies to satisfy your needs. Hope all goes as planned for you.

  5. #110
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    May 2007
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    N.Ireland
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    I don't know why I bother.

  6. #111
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    May 2005
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    776
    ray, it really would be great if you could get some of your succesfully corrected patients to write something on this or the scoliosis-support forum.

  7. #112
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    May 2007
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    N.Ireland
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    gerbo,
    I will try and get one of my 'bad' patients to do this the next time they are in.
    As I found out registration can take a week at least so bear with me.
    ray

  8. #113
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    May 2005
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    776
    from my point of view, the most interesting would be a younger adolescent patient, with proven scoliosis (x-ray) who has improved following TAMARS

    gerbo

  9. #114
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    May 2007
    Location
    N.Ireland
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    gerbo,
    Unfortunately until now I have not been bothered with post treatment x-rays etc from patients. They come in with a scoliosis- they get treatment- they leave happy and I am happy to have helped them. Also the vast majority are in the position of 'there is nothing more we can do for you except pain killers, or if the curvature is severe, fusion' medical advice. So we are generally treating old long standing curvatures. I would love to get early stage patients, and I don't mean young babies ( although they might react well ). I have treated quite a number of teenagers who have been told that their back pain is 'growing pains' but when examined have quite a curvature. Again they were not x-rayed. Unfortunately neither the doctors nor the surgeons ever actually physically look at the patients spine, except and even this is very rarely, they ask them to bend forward. Maybe in your area you find differently but it is certainly true here.
    Because the treatment has not been tested with a clinical trial, the doctors (except the ones who have had experience of the treatment through themselves or their patients) pass the patients to the orthopaedic surgeons, who look at the x-rays and MRI scans and then do the waiting experience.
    So we have to depend on recommendations from other patients, and in fact one such patient is flying in next week because of such a recommendation.
    He does have x-rays but is in his 30's so he is quite typical.
    Last edited by Rayknox; 06-04-2007 at 05:03 AM.

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1

    Tamars and Scoliosis

    Hi, I would just like to say that I totally agree with Raymond's postings. I do know Raymond, although I believe it was my website which originally was mentioned in this forum. I have been using the equipment for over 10 years and literally was the first osteopath in the world to use it. In most cases we can reduce the curvature of the spine, but first of all it reduces pain levels. Each spine is different and some are quicker than others depending on the curve. I always feel it is worth patients trying this in order to avoid surgery as they will find out quite soon whether it will work for them. It is a shame the treatment is not available in the NHS and I also agree we do need research, although a pilot study on chronic back pain was carried out at Oswestry many years ago, with good results. At our clinic we also use a SpinalMouse to monitor changes, which is seen to be the equivalent of an Xray, as featured in European Spine Journal. As well as producing an image of the angles of the spine, measures, posture, flexibility and postural competence, but is radiation free. It is a very serious piece of equipment, but is totally under the control of the practitioner. Irene Phillips

  11. #116
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5

    TAMARS/rayknox

    what is this new fabu treatment/equiptment that ive just finished reading about?
    Last edited by heidel; 09-02-2007 at 10:03 PM. Reason: add

  12. #117
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    Aug 2007
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
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    370
    Raynox:

    Where in Ireland is your clinic?

    Can you help a teenager with a T50, L48 idiopathic scoliosis? Have you had success in the past with a teenager with curves of this magnitude and can you prove it?

    Our daughter had a very bad fall on a fence a few years ago at school (pushed) and her tailbone was sore for at least three months after. She was about 9 years old. The Doctor and chiropractor say this fall has nothing to do with her scoliosis.

    How does the TAMARS treatment work?

    Is it painful for the patient?

    Ruth Tremblay, Ottawa, Canada
    Ruth, 50 years old (s-shaped 30 degree scoliosis) with degenerative disc disease, married to Mike. Mother to two children - Son 18 and daughter 14. Both have idiopathic scoliosis. Son (T38, L29) has not needed surgery to date. Daughter (March 08 - T62, L63).

  13. #118
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    May 2007
    Location
    N.Ireland
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    72

    Tamars & scoliosis

    Ruth
    Our clinic is about 20 miles from Belfast.
    The fall your daughter had seems to be one of the most common causes of back problems with women young and old.( we run across it on a daily basis here)
    In our experience the Doctors and Chiropractors(and surgeons) do not pick up the effects this sort of fall causes, and you really need to see the treatment to understand how using the TAMARS tool highlights the problem.
    The treatment works by freeing up all the joints of the spine, from the sacrum to the cervical spine. This is done by counter-rotating pairs of joints.
    The scoliosis is reduced by using the spinal muscle reflexes to literally jump the spine back to its natural position. It is a slow steady process-free the spine a little, straighten the spine a little and repeat many many times.
    The treatment can be uncomfortable to reasonably painful depending on the condition of the spine. Very inflamed, more discomfort. Young patients tend to be very tolerant of the treatment and the treatment can be pushed on quickly.
    If you are interested in speaking to young patients that have been treated, I can forward contact numbers (with their approval). I can give a selection of ages and severity.(both better and worse than your daughter) I will do this with private messaging.You can also contact me directly if you wish.
    Your daughter is young and should respond very well. She should still have a lot of growing to do and that is when the problems will occur.
    Let me know what you think.
    Ray.

  14. #119
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    May 2007
    Location
    N.Ireland
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    heidel.
    My answer to Ruth should give you more information. Feel free to ask anything that concerns you.

  15. #120
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    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5

    Wink Tamars treatment

    Hollo :
    It figures !
    You are in Europe !
    I am so frustrated by the US and their ignorance in regards to Scoliosis.
    It is bad enough that we do not have socialized medicine.
    Oh well, sounds great and am happy that it is helping people over there.
    thanks, peace
    Cindy

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