We finally were seen by an Ortho

[structural75]

... steer clear of vestibular testing/rehab,

It seems as though the word 'vestibular' has become estranged on this forum due to prejudices toward certain types of practitioners (i.e. - chiropractors - of which I'm not by the way). Regardless of personal feelings about chiropractors, vestibular rehab is still a legitimate field and could/should be carried out by those properly trained to do so.

What is the basis for this advice? Has anyone consulted with a neurologic specialist prior to dismissing its relevance here? Vest. rehabilitation can be very useful for those with chiari malformation... especially when it's been surgically addressed and improved upon. It's no different than when someone has knee replacement surgery and goes into physical therapy to learn to walk properly again under the guidance of a professional. Chiari has a very direct and significant effect on the vestibular system and rehab of such is potentially quite applicable here. Those with chiari develop dysfunctional neurologic patternings that can/will persist in the bodies sensory/motor pathways unless addressed properly. I think it's a good idea to look at the big picture. All of this should entail more than just forcing the spine back into an upright position... there are underlaying cause(s) at play, whether known or unknown, they're worth consideration for the best possible outcome.

What's right for one person may not be for another...

best wishes

[amandap]

Hi Lauralee,

I agree with Maria that although all Shriners Hospitals offer great care the Philadelphia Shriners is Top of the Tops.

All the Doc's we have met are kind and compasionate and they will give your child the best care possible.

Vertebral Stapling is basically an internal brace that allows children to maintain 100% flexibility in their spine unlike fusion and usually kiddos are given the all clear after 30 days. Lorena participates in Gymanstics and Cheerleading and the stapling has not limited her participation.

I honestly am not sure about contact sports like football, Maria may be a better person to answer that question because her son plays sports.

Amanda

[mariaf]

Regarding football (after stapling), you would really have to ask the doctors in Philadelphia.

The drill is that after a few months, there are "no restrictions" - and David plays basketball and baseball - but football is such a contact sport. To be honest, if it were me, I wouldn't let David play tackle football even if the doctors said he could. It would just not be worth the risk to me.

However, again, that's just ME.

best of luck,

[Celia]

...What is the basis for this advice? Has anyone consulted with a neurologic specialist prior to dismissing its relevance here?

Structural,

I believe we already had a lengthy debate on vestibular rehab/testing and if my memory serves me correctly, I whipped your butt to the moon



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[emarismom]

Celia, That would be great if you could ask for me, I'd really appreciate it.
I don't plan on visiting a chiropractor. Considering the Chiari and Syrinx', I
don't believe that anyone should be adjusting Emily's back. It could cause more harm than good.

mariaf, Thanks for the recommendation for a nuerosurgeon. Up until now I have been very happy with the Dr. who did her surgery. God willing, he will never need to do anything more than follow ups. If I ever see "symptoms", then I will get his opinion (as well as the oth NS in his office). They are literaly less than three miles from my house. If there is ever a need for another "brain surgery" I will probably look into The Chiari Institute in NY.

Does anyone have ant suggestions as to possible excercises or other activities that we can do to help prevent progression, other than watching and waiting. It feels as though I am sitting here all this time, just waiting for the scoliosis to get worse. Then when(if) it does get worse, I'll be sitting there regretting not doing more to prevent it.

[structural75]

Celia,

You can't possibly be serious.????? I know I've stepped away from this forum for a couple of months now, but who made you the "medical" expert? Since when is it appropriate to give advice on subjects you know very little about? Reading studies does not constitute an education on human neurophysiology. I believe Dr. Rivard emailed me a response that was posted in that discussion regarding vestibular rehabilitation. You may want to re-visit that one to refresh your "memory" on who's "butt" was where.

A previous debate with you does not determine fact from fiction... it's still your opinion, as well as my own. In the end, people can consult with the M.D.s qualified to offer professional and accurate input on the subject.

That slanderous remark about vestibular rehab. was unnecessary.

And why even bring up chiropractics? ... It's an absolute contraindication for chiari/syrinx... who in their right mind would use chiro with those conditions present?

[Celia]

Celia,

You can't possibly be serious.????? I know I've stepped away from this forum for a couple of months now, but who made you the "medical" expert? Since when is it appropriate to give advice on subjects you know very little about? Reading studies does not constitute an education on human neurophysiology. I believe Dr. Rivard emailed me a response that was posted in that discussion regarding vestibular rehabilitation. You may want to re-visit that one to refresh your "memory" on who's "butt" was where.

I beg your pardon but you consider yourself an expert? Don't make me laugh!!! Dr. Rivard's response was inconclusive and you know it. He was trying to be politically correct. How is he supposed to know what these idiot chiropractors are doing????? To answer your question, I am very serious I whipped your butt good!



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[structural75]

I beg your pardon but you consider yourself an expert?

Did I? No, but certainly more knowledgeable and qualified than yourself, without a doubt.

Dr. Rivard's response was inconclusive and you know it.

Yes, I do know it... as was your entire argument. I believe this was his comment:

In summary I hope that SpineCor Brace could change the vestibular system but

I don't have any proof yet.

Best regards

Charles H, Rivard M.D.

So why would he hope that it would change the vestibular system if it weren't important??? My argument on the matter was that it was a relevant factor to consider.... which it clearly is. Don't embarrass yourself again Celia.

[Celia]

I never embarrassed myself in the first place so I don't see how I could embarrass myself again?????! You know what....I'll print out the entire letter and show it to him next week and ask him to elaborate. I honestly doubt he would approve of charging patients for these tests and rehab - this is simply not in his character.



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[structural75]

That sounds great. Maybe you can also ask him if it's in his character to denagrade those seeking a more comprehensive approach than bracing alone.

I'll count on you to return with an honest report on the matter.

[Celia]

.... My argument on the matter was that it was a relevant factor to consider.... which it clearly is.

Your opening argument on the matter was to promote Scoliosis Systems run by Dr. Deutchman and Dr. Lamantia and how the vestibular system and hence necessity for testing and rehab is an integral part of the Spinecor brace. Your opening arguments were taken directly from the Scoliosis Systems website. I'm sure I can speak for many on this forum when I say patients should not be taken advantage of especially for monetary gain. Report back to Dr. Deutchman that the cat's out of the bag!

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[structural75]

Celia,

You are truly unbelievable... I have said time and again that I am not a chiropractor.

My initial argument had absolutely nothing to do with the Chiropractors in NYC. It was simply to clarify your smearing and slandering of the practice of vestibular testing and rehabilitation as a legitimate field of medical study and practice. It was your prejudice against chiros that led you to denigrate anything that was remotely related to them or being utilized by them. Vestibular Rehabilitation is a medical practice performed first and foremost by M.D.s, those chiros in NYC just happen to be utilizing it as well. My "opening" arguments were deleted from this forum as they were directed at you and your brash slew of ignorant comments on the matter. Yes, those were quotes from the Sc. Systems website, is there a problem with logical reasoning?

No, I never stated testing was an integral part of the spinecor brace... I said the spinecor was effective in part because it permitted functional use of the spine while wearing it, "hence" thereby having an inevitable impact/effect on the vestibular system (should I remind you it is the center for equilibrium, balance, coordination, etc.).

I'm sure I can speak for many on this forum when I say patients should not be taken advantage of especially for monetary gain.

You can speak for me on that matter as well, ... I agree completely! I have absolutely nothing to gain by supporting comprehensive and intelligent approaches to scoliosis treatment.

Report back to Dr. Deutchman that the cat's out of the bag!

Never spoken to the man.

Celia, I'm curious... were the first people to use the spinecor brace charged for their Dr. consults/visits and for the cost of the brace? If so, how could they do such a thing without extensive studies to back up its efficacy? How could they charge people for something that was experimental, and still is to some degree? Vest. Rehab was in use in the medical community for a variety of other conditions long before those chiros began using it. Contrary to your belief, the chiros did not 'invent' vestibular rehab and testing, M.D.s did.

How quickly I remember why I stopped visiting this forum...

[Celia]

I'm not even going to revisit that discussion because it's there and I don't want to repeat myself. You are obviously an agitator and I have better things to do with my time. I know for a fact when the first Spinecor study was underway, people were not charged for the brace. What is at issue here is you claiming that vestibular testing and rehab in the context of scoliosis treatment is "logical reasoning" and this is where I and many others in this forum beg to differ.

Here are your opening remarks in the other thread:


Sorry folks that this is so long, but it's concise and makes a point. It's certainly more in depth and comprehensive than anything else that's being offered. I know you're [Gerbo] a spincor user, ...Are you really against this vestibular rehab? It is in fact an integral part of the premise behind the spincor brace as noted by the Doctors themselves

Which doctors? Dr. Deutchman?


Here is Dr. Rivard's Reply:


Many studies, mostly by the Japenese people, are telling us that the scoliosis patient are showing some abnormality in their vestibular system, but no body up to now can tell us if it's a consequence or one of the aetiologic factor.of the scoliosis. Dr Lamiantia in New-York is doing vestibular testing on all his scoliosis patient and we are still waiting him to gave us some results of those exam that he is doing for two to three years now.

In summary I hope that SpineCor Brace could change the vestibular system but I don't have any proof yet.

Best regards

Charles H, Rivard M.D.

Dr. Rivard states that he hasn't recieved results on this phoney baloney study that has been going on for three years. How long does a study take to complete??????! Nowhere does it state he's aware patients are being charged or that vestibular testing/rehab is an integral part of the spinecor brace as you stated in your opening remarks above!!!! This whole thing is purely a profit making scheme for the chiropractors involved - if you need further clarification, please speak to Braceguy who worked directly with the chiropractors in question.


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[structural75]

Your conspiracy theories are tiresome... How about the folks undergoing this treatment who have seen positive results? Why are you not mentioning their experiences? Selective reasoning???

I don't support scams either... but I also wouldn't condemn an entire field of medicine because of a few bad apples.

It's funny, one minute you'll argue a study isn't comprehensive enough, now you're arguing it's too comprehensive and long term. Give me a break. The only way we'll know if something carries long-term benefit is if we do long-term studies!!! Aren't the Montreal Dr. still doing studies on the spinecor??? & in the meanwhile charging people good money with only short-term knowledge of its effect?

Do what you do and let others be!! I'm tired of you bad mouthing other methods and approaches!

[Celia]

Hello!!! The Spinecor brace has been around since the early part of the 1990's and there *is* a study showing it's remarkable effectiveness!!!! Plus quite a few people in this forum are having equally remarkable results. Which patients are having remarkable results with vestibular rehab?????



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