vestibular testing

[structural75]

Hi Zuma,

I'm so glad you brought that up... I know my posts tend to be quite clinically based, as certain others insist I keep the info/commments objective and "scietnific". I definitely don't mind you quoting me on this... guilty as charged .

One of the aspects of my work that drew me to it was its regard for the pychological and emotional being within us all. It differs in many ways from other therapies, but most importantly is that it not only has a strong scientific basis, but it also acknowleges the client as a human being(I don't use the word 'patient' because I feel it has a passive, subordinate and disempowering tone to it - 'one who waits' and is at the mercy of others to assist them. I believe self-empowerment is an important and vital component to treatment, healing and health overall.)

There is much more info on Structural Integration and this aspect to it on the websites of several of the schools, so I won't bog you all down with it here.

One of the reasons I advocate the work to people is due to this fact of addressing and interacting with the emotional and psychological aspects. I know that physical conditions such as scoliosis and kyphosis can have a significant impact on these aspects of ones life. Add a rigid brace to the picture and it only amplifies matters. So I thought that recommending the approach could be helpful to people in this regard at the same time they are dealing with the physical aspect. It is never to suggest that SI will work for everyone to the same degree. But it certainly offers something that physical therapy, chiropractics, pilates, etc. doesn't address, the emotional/psychological influences and factors.

I wish I could speak more freely in those regards, but certain folks here have a hard enough time letting me share objective comments alone. Hope you can see my point and position here.

Again, Thank you for putting those thoughts out here, I think it was an important reminder to us all.
Kind Regards,
structural

[Celia]

Structural,

I cannot accept the pictures on the website you referred to as proof that SI works, you see....there is no "tonus" or muscle mass in that young man's convex side. His shoulders are level in all the pictures! He never had scoliosis to begin with and is simply positioning his hips in such a way to look as though he's in a slant. I'm afraid you'll have to do better than that - I want proof that your scoliosis resolved.

[zuma]

Hi Structural

thanks for the prompt reply

in regars to your quote I wish I could speak more freely in those regards, but certain folks here have a hard enough time letting me share objective comments alone. Hope you can see my point and position here. I certainly do see your point and sympathise to some extent with you

I think we should all think out of the box and look at each and every option available and be in a position that we can objectively pick and choose or combine therapies/bracing or surgeries available to gain the best possible treatment for the loved ones we are trying to help who are suffering.

Knowing what i know now if my daughter was showing any signs or symptoms of contracting then dodgy gene i inherited from my family (kyphosis runs through my mothers side of the family tree) i would be exploring all avenues open which inludes both established and alternative treatments in order to gain the best and most appropriate treatment for her

I understand the forthright arguments put across in this thread are borne out of the love we have for either a family member or a desire to do the best we can for either a patient or a client (i don't have an issue with what ever terminology is used) its all one to me. Ultimately would not be here unless we were either a family member or a a sufferer and i do hate having to either pigeon hole or label someone



Peace be with you all
Z

[Celia]

...One of the aspects of my work that drew me to it was its regard for the pychological and emotional being within us all. It differs in many ways from other therapies, but most importantly is that it not only has a strong scientific basis, but it also acknowleges the client as a human being...

If the way you treat people on this board is any indication of your *compassion* for your fellow man - I pity your clients. Keep in mind that you have deleted a lot of your abusive remarks to me in attempts to whitewash this thread.

[macky]

I certainly wish I had kept a separate folder of my own, so I could now bring it forth and show people what your abusive remarks to Celia and myself have been like. To the point I have ended up in tears and almost stopped posting.
I would love to see these Xrays of your 27degree curve as well ??????


Now Zuma
Firstly I am sorry if it seems as if I was trading blows with Structural but a lot has been changed on this thread by him and as Celia said "whitewashed".

Much more importantly I was so sad to read that you were diagnosed way back in the dark ages when no one addressed the seriousness of your kyphosis. I was operated on in 1966 with harrington rods and all that followed plaster, brace and all. Honestly I do consider myself so lucky even though I have pain now, but what you must have gone through and still are, must be terrible., honestly I am so very sorry, my heart goes out to you.

I did enjoy what you said in your posts and am glad that you have decided to register as a member.

God bless,
Macky xx

[structural75]

Hi Celia & Macky,

I am absolutely not going down this road again with you. This is precisely how the first arguement began... you didn't like what I have to say and ..... well the rest was obvious. I'm sorry for getting personal about things, but I was responding to personal attacks that were started by you.

I don't want to waste anyone elses time, nor my own, exchanging words in that way again. Gerbo, Mandy and I were having a discussion... please let us continue without being interrupted with such rude and unproductive remarks.

Neither of you are in any position to question my integrity or previous curvature. I owe you nothing on that matter.

As a professional myself, I would never attempt to evaluate the "tonus" of an individuals tissue from a photograph, nor is the photograph in question of the quality to even try. If you question its legitamacy, contact any of the individuals referenced in the article for more information to satisfy your demands... .

And my deleted personal remarks... as Gerbo suggested to us both early on, I thought it best to eliminate the bulk of "hurtful" and personal remarks that I made in response to yours. I openly said that I was doing it and why... so it wasn't an attempt to whitewash the thread. I thought leaving more objective and non-personal content would be the most appropriate and compasssionate thing to do and I even subtley suggested that you do the same to clear the air. If you feel those remarks of yours are worthwhile to have here then that's your decision... please don't pin that on me.

In the end, I think everyone has had enough and they have all seen that the bulk of the abusive comments were initiated by the two of you... I was just responding (and sincerely wish I had not). This most recent occurrence (just prior to this post) is anther example of your unsolicited abuse. I beg you to please, please stop because it is affecting other people as well.

Kindly,
Structural

[Celia]

...Neither of you are in any position to question my integrity or previous curvature. I owe you nothing on that matter....

Of course not, I didn't expect you to.

[structural75]

Celia,

His shoulders are level in all the pictures! He never had scoliosis to begin with and is simply positioning his hips in such a way to look as though he's in a slant.

Uneven shoulders don't occur in all cases of scoliosis.

I noticed your edit on this post and I just wanted to say that I think accusing that young man of being a fraud is not very kind or appropriate here. It also would imply that all those involved in the article and treatment were also frauds... I can't imagine that those folks would be so monstrous as to do such a thing (seeing that I know David Davis and his efforts are genuine and very personally based).

I was wondering, did you read the article or just look at the pctures? The article referenced a senior practitioner (David Davis) of 25 years who's wife has scoliosis. Why would he lie and create deceit like that?

These are good people, with very good intentions.

structural

[macky]

OK Structural," you Gerbo and Mandy were having a discussion please let us continue without being interupted by such rude and unproductive remarks."
Sorry ,I thought on this forum anyone was allowed to state their comments in regard to a certain thread, whether to agree or disagree.
Exactly when did they make you a moderator?

As you told me in an earlier post "to keep my place" well I will, and one day you may realise that what I have been trying to get across to you was correct. It is difficult to understand how a person who has scoliosis actually feels, scoliosis that is bad enough to effect their lives that is. We all have different opinions about alternate therapies because of the way they have affected our lives.

But, hey, you know it all, at how old?

Macky

[macky]

I wont post again, but how your attitude has changed.

"I beg you to please, please stop because it is affecting other people as well"
Such a different tone to a lot of your other posts, making it now look like it has been Celia and I that have been bullies.


Macky

[zuma]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for those kind words Macky they were truly appreciated. I have been following this thread since it began and only registered a day ago so i did read all the posts in the context they were written

My thoughts are you are all passionate about the subject and all have different ideas on the best approach to either the paticular issues facing you or the diffferent approaches to try and treat this horrible condition we all have. I would'nt try to proffess to be an expert in this field, i was told there is nothing can be done by a so called proffesional so i got on with my life.

If you want my opinion for what its worth (which probably is'nt much) i think we should all take a step back, read the post go away think about the response and then post a reply. I think deep down we all respect one another as if we did'nt we would not be so passionate in our responses

Z

[Celia]

Structural,

I can't comment on the intentions of the people who put up that website and of course this is just my very humble opinion, but it doesn't look as though the young man had scoliosis to begin with.

[structural75]

Macky,
I'm in agreeance with you that it is your right to post your opinion and comments, as it is for everyone here. My tone has changed in that I don't want to be a part of the mud slinging any more. People were hurt by the commetns that we all made, regardless of who initiated... this time I did not initiate them, that I can say with certainty. I'm accepting of the fact that you don't agree, but I don't believe it justifies adding personal insulting remarks. If we want to avoid hurting one anothers feeling and keep this objective, then I see it best to state our cases/beliefs/opinions and leave it at that. I don't appreciate being called a "snake oil salesman", but replying with a hurtful remark will not help the situation.(I know you are not the one who said it). I don't wish to make anyone look like a "bully", the most recent remarks speak for themselves.... I can't help that.?

I asked you to keep your place because you jumped into the conversation with some pretty harsh remarks, even though we hadn't exchanged any words with one another before that. It was in reference to speaking about the 'clinical' aspect of things, of which I think I have a sound ability to do so. If anyone wants to question the info I put forth, that's great... but it isn't fair to discredit clinical information if we don't have the knowledge of it in the first place. You have played a very important role on this forum and hope to see you continue offering your support, compassion and experiences. Please let others do the same in the relevant areas that pertain to them and their experiences.

Celia,
I don't know what to say... really. That link I posted was an article that was published in a national magazine, not a website created by gosh knows who.?? It is true that not everyone with scoliosis presents with uneven shoulders. And I think it's fairly clear from visual analysis alone that he has it, what else would you call a lateral deviation of the spine? I also don't believe that people would write an article on scoliosis with someone who didn't have it. If you're really convince that he didn't have it then I'm sure there is a way to contact him and/or his parents to find out. I'm not sure what else to say about this.

structural

[structural75]

To Gerbo & all others following the previous discussion,
Just wanted to be clear that we were disussing a type I biomechanic (as Gerbo presented) and corrective approach. Other variations occur, although less common... type II. The one presented by the two of us and the studies were type I.

Thanks.
structural

[Bish]

Hey there

Hi Structural,
I do tend to agree that many of your thoughts and theories appear to have much validity. Some of these may be so theoretical that they cannot be proven. This does not mean that they are incorrect, nor correct of course. I do think it is important to think outside the box and I respect that. It is likely a person such as yourself, may one day find the most effective remedy or cure for this disease (condition), call it what you will.
Obviously there is a lot of emotional involvement in discussions on this site, as many peoples lives have been severely affected by this condition. Many people here have spent thousands of dollars, time and emotional investment on various proffessional or psuedo proffessionals proffessing to have the answers but falling short of results. I am sure many have seen these practitioners who have all the jargon down pat and proffess these scientific theories as fact. It sounds great but it has not been proven to work. I am not suggesting this is you, but I am sure you understand why you have a large bullseye on your head in this forum.
I think you are bringing to the table some important thoughts and ideas and encourage your continuing to do so.
In regards to this desire for proof of results that everyone is hitting you up for, it is surely because most of us have have heard the talk alot but have never seen true results. I am not trying to undermine your integrity or intelligence here but If you have true results that you have induced a change in your own condition, or that of your patients, please show us! Do us all a favour! Hell if I had them I would show the world! If it can be proven to have some results I will try SI and if it works I will be eternally greatful to you. All the best, Dave