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  • #46
    Originally posted by structural75
    .... Why does it seem so off-the-wall to address the neurologic side to this more specifically? By addressing inner ear imbalances (which are either reflecting or influencing irregular muscular/ligamentous tonus), one would be further assisting the process of limiting the uneven mechanotransduction that's influencing growth.

    It seems quite logical... after all, the muscular system is being partially controlled autonomically by information being supplied via the nervous system, which is being informed, in part, by the vestibular system & cerebellum (balance and coordination).
    Why is it off the wall ?! Because there is lack of proof that what you're doing is actually going to have any affect whatsoever on the scoliosis. This is still an *unknown* field and hence very experimental and patients should not be charged for experimental/unproven efforts.


    Excerpt taken from:

    Scoliosis. 2006; 1: 16.
    Published online 2006 October 18. doi: 10.1186/1748-7161-1-16.
    Copyright © 2006 Stokes et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.


    Biomechanical spinal growth modulation and progressive adolescent scoliosis –a test of the 'vicious cycle' pathogenetic hypothesis: Summary of an electronic focus group debate of the IBSE
    Ian AF Stokes,1 R Geoffrey Burwell,2 and Peter H Dangerfield3

    1Department of Orthopaedics and Rehabilitation, University of Vermont, Burlington, Vermont 05405, USA
    2The Centre for Spinal Studies & Surgery, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham, NG7 2UH, UK
    3Sherrington Buildings, Ashton Street, Liverpool, L69 3GE, UK


    Mechanotransduction in articular cartilage, vertebral growth plates and other tissues and organs

    Comment no. 43

    Mechanotransduction is the process by which cells convert mechanical energy into electrical or chemical signals [72,73,75]. It lies within the field of mechanobiology that in the skeleton includes the three effects of Hueter-Volkmann, Pauwels and Wolff [85,132-134]. (The Pauwels' effect is where intermittent pressure within the limits of physiological stress and strain stimulates the growth plates of a healthy bone [2,7]). In addition to studies on the intervertebral disc [162,163] there is much recent study of articular cartilage as efforts expand to discover disease-modifying drugs to treat or prevent osteoarthritis [164-167]. According to Ingber [73] mechanical signals may be integrated with other environmental signals – including growth factors and extracellular matrix – and transduced into a biochemical response through force-dependent changes in scaffold geometry or molecular mechanics. Stoltz [168] states that in chondrocytes many genes are regulated up and down by mechanical forces and the response depends not only on the duration and amplitude of the forces, but also on their variations in time. Lammi [169] reviewing articular cartilage states that possible mechanotransduction pathways in chondrocytes activated by load include the integrin-interleukin-4 route, NMDA receptors, and P2Y2 purinoceptors the latter involving ATP [170]. If such load-sensitive receptors are present in chondrocytes of endplate physes variation in gene expression by age, gender and topography may underlie the vulnerability to curve progression under eccentric load. There is preliminary work evaluating the effect of mechanical loads on mRNA expression of rat tibial growth plate cells [20]. Are any of the current methods now being used to study articular cartilage mechanotransduction being applied to endplates?

    Response

    The mechanical influences on articular chondrocytes and extra-cellular matrix synthesis and degradation are reviewed in Grodzinsky et al [171]. However, I suspect that little of this information can be applied to the very different growth plate chondrocytic phenotype characterized by high rates of proliferation (cycle time about 48 hours), rapid hypertrophy and abundant matrix synthesis, and eventual apoptosis. The mechanisms of mechanotransduction and their effects on cells in each stage of this differentiation cascade (and the rate of differentiation itself) are probably very specific to growth plate chondrocytes.
    Moderator: In addition to skeletal tissues, muscles, tendons and ligaments [78,79], mechanotransduction is involved in the senses of touch, balance (spindle receptors and proprioceptors), hearing, baroreceptors (blood pressure), vascular remodeling from fluid shear stress [172] and systemic osmolarity [74]. Little is known about how mechanical input forces delivered to a cell result in a repertoire of output physiologic responses [74,75,172] though recently force-transducing molecules – mechanosensitive ion channels – have been identified in cell membranes with lipids [74] and calcium channels in osteoblasts [173] intimately involved. In certain connective tissues mechanotransduction appears to involve cyclical mechanical strain upregulating extracellular matrix genes suggesting that such genes are possible targets for novel therapeutic intervention [81].
    Last edited by Celia; 01-06-2007, 10:29 AM.

    Canadian eh
    Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

    Comment


    • #47
      Celia,
      Yes, I understand what you're saying... point taken, but it doesn't mean it's off-the-wall but rather awaiting further exploration. Ideopathic scoliosis itself is still an "unknown" field, seeing as we still don't have definitive answers on its causes, prevention or consistently effective treatments. Just attempting to put a more broad spectrum view on things.

      I think many of these are feasible possibilities, including visceral malformation/develpment during the embryonic and fetal stages causing the ribs and/or spine to grow asymmetrically, etc.. While there are no studies proving it is a contributing factor, there are also no studies proving it's not. So it's yet another question that will remain unanswered until more research, studies and knowledge is gained on the matter.

      My main concern for treating ideopathic scoliosis without regard for possible causation is that it is unlikely to respond to treatment for very long if the underlaying possible causes are not explored and addressed. And for my clients sake (all of them are also under the guidance/care of orthopods), I can't wait for a study to come out before considering the possibilities unique to them. What I do is very conservative and non-invasive so I'm not concerned about doing harm, as it's never been a problem. In fact its been nothing but helpful to the majority of them.

      Comment


      • #48
        What I do is very conservative and non-invasive so I'm not concerned about doing harm, as it's never been a problem. In fact its been nothing but helpful to the majority of them. That is a quote from yourself.

        How on earth do you know it WILL never be a problem," its been nothing but helpful to the majority of them" HOW LONG FOR WILL IT BE NOTHING BUT HELPFUL, short term, long term, for the rest of their lives.

        I could not help but notice how you were so respectful and nice to Gerbo and yet so abusive to women who post here. You cant handle a woman being correct. Of course you knew I was a woman, you had looked back into my posts and quoted from one a few weeks ago so there is the proof of that.

        I am not a person who closes their eyes to medial break throughs. In fact one of my most fervent wishes is that there are break throughs in Diabetes which is only one I have hope for.

        It is just when people like you just rant and rave and think they know everything about a subject when there is no evidence to back it up long term, it just makes me cringe that some people will believe you, waste thousands on something that will not help them. WILL not because of as I said no long term proof.

        I have tried alternate therapies , but the majority of practicioners of those therapies honesly run a mile when they see me, as they cannot help me. I am fine. OK I am in pain, big deal I can cope with that, what I cant cope with are people like you.

        It is even getting to the stage that I dont even want to post here on this forum any more because of your comments, and that breaks my heart..

        Lorraine. (macky)
        Operation 1966, Fused from T4 to L3, had Harrington rods inserted. Originally had an 85 degree Thoracic curve with lumbar scoliosis as well but had a good correction.
        Perfectly normal life till 1997 but now in a lot of pain daily. Consider myself very fortunate though.

        Comment


        • #49
          Lorraine,

          How do I know? Many reasons (mind you, educated discretion is always used) including the fact that it has been in use for treatment of a variety of conditions for over 60 years with no adverse affects! And it's founder, Dr. Ida Rolf (a Biochemist and researcher at Georgetown University and the Rockefellar Institute), was inspired to create a unique approach to physical dysfunctions due to her son's SCOLIOSIS!!! He is now a grown adult roughly about your age, I presume, and is doing just great!!! He lives in Austria if you want to track him down and ask for yourself. Just as there are no studies "proving" the efficacy of many complimentary therapies, there are NONE proving there ineffectiveness as well (because NOBODY is doing them!). That should leave us all on neutral ground, right?

          And this women thing you've made up... put it to rest as you've seriously crossed a line! I never said I didn't know you were female, what the heck are you talking about? I can handle anyone being correct, unfortunately you're not one of them. You don't even have anything to be correct about as you're spurting off insults and jibberish about a whole "lot a rot" and so forth... . In fact, Gerbo and I had a heated discussion of our own not too long ago... through it all we learned a bit about one another and knew when to draw the line in future discussions. In fact, the profession I have chosen was created by a brilliant woman, way ahead of her time. I have tremendous respect for ALL people deserving.

          The difference between you and Gerbo in this thread is that he isn't dragging this on with insults as you are. Both he and I alike wanted to end this discussion and then you and Celia kept it going! He also seems to have intelligent, well thought out and productive things to say... just about the only thing you two have done is insult me, my perspective, my experience and discredit things that you're simply against. I'm not "ranting and raving", I'm defending myself from you two. If you actually tried to have a curious dialogue then I could be certain things would look very different.

          Bottom line... enough with the insults and denigration, PLEASE!!! I'm fine with you having your opinion, and me having my own. We come from different backgrounds... and so I'll continue to share what I've seen CLINICALLY, and you can share what you read in STUDIES. I have nothing to gain by supporting certain methods on this forum, except to know that someone might be helped by it. That's all the "payment" I need.

          For what it's worth, I hope you continue posting on this forum, as you are actually very sweet when you're not attacking others.

          structural

          Comment


          • #50
            Structural,

            You stated at the start of this thread:

            They are FAR more than eye exercises.. had she known what vestibular was she wouldn't make such brash statements. Nobodies "trying" to do anything, they've been "legitimized" already.....I have nothing to gain by supporting certain methods on this forum, except to know that someone might be helped by it. That's all the "payment" I need.


            That's all you should get and not a penny more! I'm holding YOU accountable for your false misleading statements that this is *proven* and *legitimate* when in fact there is no basis for these assertions.
            Last edited by Celia; 01-06-2007, 10:43 AM.

            Canadian eh
            Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

            Comment


            • #51
              Celia,

              I thought we were done with this rediculous arguement... ?

              You may analyze my posts further to realize that I was justifying/defending vestibular testing and rehabilitation as a valid, "proven" and "legitimate" form of treatment in its own right (meaning it has applications for a wide variety of conditions that involve the nervous system, and has clearly "proven" its effectiveness in that regard). Nowhere did I say that it was "proven" to "CORRECT" a scoliosis on its own, nor did I claim there were "studies" to "prove" its efficacy or "legitimacy" SPECIFICALLY in regards to scoliosis. Until you can quote me as making that previous statement, get off my back and stop twisting my comments around to suit your slanderous agenda here.

              My statements were therefore NOT FALSE by any means. I think it's more than obvious that neurologic testing and rehabilitation in the context of scoliosis is a logical, rational and important factor in treatment programs. I did not say there were studies "proving" its "legitimacy" as it pertains to scoliosis! What I was doing was making a deductive and educated statement about its relevancy and importance to this condition, and that regardless of studies specifically on the topic, it has merit.

              And lastly, I was making it clear that vestibular testing and rehab was NOT a bunch of "phoney baloney" as you so eloquently put it. Just because there aren't many studies available on scoliosis specifically doesn't mean that the field in question is "phoney baloney"... give me a break! It IS a legitimate field of practice which has proven valuable to many people with a variety of conditions... there's no reason to exclude scoliosis from that list.

              You know, it's obvious by now that we disagree. Leave it at that. I don't care if you're opposed to non-surgical approaches or the like... So unitl you can give me a valid anatomical and physiological reason why something couldn't be helpful, then please mind your own business. You can't just shoot down things that you clearly don't understand. Reading studies is NOT a substitute for proper education and knowledge about the workings of the human body. Nor are they there to offer definitive answers to problems faced, but merely reflect isolative perspectives on consistancies/inconsistancies in order to help practitioners and the like make more informed decisions. (But they aren't always the RIGHT decisions) The fact that few studies have been done to "prove" its efficacy doesn't mean that it's not effective, applicable or legitimate in the context of scoliosis, it simply means that we just don't know enough about it.

              Comment


              • #52
                Structural,

                If you treat patients with methods that have no scientific validity or studies to back them up why should insurance companies pay for it? In fact many parents have not been reimbursed for these expenses. You will probably find yourself one day in the same predicament "dr" Copes found himself in.... jail. I'll quote Gerbo here because I think he said it best:

                ...to a patient with scoliosis there is only one issue which determines relevance; and that is whether effort, time and money spend results in stabilisation, improvement or slowing down of progress, which would not have occured without the particular testing/ treatment....Remember that the discussion started following a posting about vestibular testing done by doctors in the context of scoliosis, so no issue was taken as such about it being done for scientific reasons and/or for the treatment or diagnosis of other conditions by other practitioners....In the context of treatment of scoliosis, there is nothing wrong with vestibular testing as long as it is made clear that it is only of academic interest, patients are advised that there is no evidence at all that "treatment" based on this testing does anything to improve scolosis or helps to maintain a curve, and of course no large additional payments are demanded.

                Canadian eh
                Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

                Comment


                • #53
                  Celia,
                  Obviously you're irritated because you just won't let this one rest.

                  How did we get on the topic of insurance coverage? I'll answer anyhow... I choose not to participate in insurance billing even though I certainly could... none whatsoever. People pay me strictly out of pocket... because it works for them and it doesn't break their bank in the process! Besides, I find that when people are forced to pay out of pocket entirely, they have more of a vested interest in what they're doing and are usually more objective about the results of treatment. If it's not effective for them, they don't keep coming, ...as many often do for chiropractics or pt simply because 'insurance covers it, so why not'.... .

                  Structural integration is covered by some insurance companies and not others... and the numbers are growing, I simply choose not to involve myself with the hassle for many reasons. (Mind you here, despite my argument for the appropriate use of vestibular testing, I have made clear that I do not do that testing in my practice as that's the domain of an M.D.. I do however utilize a functional approach to vestibular rehabilitation, but it is in no way meant to 'imitate' anything else that might be used elsewhere.)

                  When did this turn into a debate over the legitimacy of MY chosen profession? Are you trying to tell me that structural integration/visceral manipulation is scientifically invalid??? (I'd say you are.) I'd be happy to offer you a study or two if wish to go there .

                  And how do you debate the "scientific validity" of something that is based on science (biochemistry, fascial plasticity, neurobiology, fluid dynamics, physiology, etc. and GRAVITY - Are you saying the effect of gravity on the human structure is immeasurable or 'unproven'???? Do you mean to say that all of the M.D.s, Physical Therapists, PhDs and the like out there practicing structural integration are doing something scientifically invalid???

                  Maybe this will calm your ranting and raving... Here is a colleague of mine and an M.D. in Physical Medicine (one of the first few),.. He's one of the research directors for the Kessler Institute as well and has specialized in neurologic dysfunctions for the over 30 years.
                  http://www.njpainandrehab.com/bios/tfindley_bio.htm

                  I'll find myself in jail... for what???????? I'm sorry, but re-stating Gerbo's OPINION doesn't do much for me. As for your opinion and accusations...... ????????? Stop waisting peoples time.

                  structural
                  p.s. - Studies are STILL NOT the definitive be all, end all in ANY decision making process. At this point Celia, I think a "legitimate" education on the topic at hand is required of you in order to make any potential progress in this discussion. Otherwise it's just a conitinuation of this study, that study and an insult here and there .

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Despite your feeble attempts to throw this whole discussion into different directions, I think we have made remarkable progress.

                    According to the following link, "dr" Copes was also using Vestibular Rehabilitation before he was thrown in jail.

                    http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/copes.html


                    Questionable Claims

                    Copes claims that scoliosis impairs the neurological, hormonal, and nutritional systems and "affects the body down to the cellular level." [8] His "Scoliosis Treatment Advanced Recovery System" ("STARS") includes: "scoliosis muscle stimulation therapy," chiropractic spinal manipulation, "ocular/vestibular therapy," "nutritional/hormonal support," the Copes Lateral Fulcrum Board, and the Copes Dynamic Brace. According to his Web site:

                    The Scoliosis Treatment Advanced Recovery System is designed to reverse idiopathic scoliosis. Unlike other treatment plans, STARS addresses the full spectrum of symptoms including bone deformities, muscle imbalance, neurological changes, cellular nutrition and cellular hormonal deficits. . . .

                    With STARS, success comes without the need for painful and sometimes dangerous surgery. . . .

                    STARS . . . . not only arrests spinal curvature progression, it straightens it.... much like orthodontic braces straighten teeth. Spinal curvatures are reversed while every system in the body is re-educated to hold the straightened spine. . . .

                    Through years of clinical research, component development and continuous improvement, the STARS methodology has helped patients of all ages and degrees of severity. It is the exclusive scoliosis treatment protocol of Physicians from all around the world. . . .

                    When patients choose the STARS they enter into the most advanced scoliosis treatment program in the world. With adequate time and dedication, and compliance with all aspects of the STARS program, a patient can be certain they are on the road to non-surgical recovery from scoliosis [9].

                    Copes advises chiropractors who refer to him to have their patients undergo hair analysis to determine what dietary supplements they need [10]. Hair analysis is not valid for this purpose [11]. Moreover, nutrition is not a factor in the development or treatment of scoliosis. The electrical treatments Copes recommends are also unwarranted. Scientific studies have concluded that bracing is far more effective than electrical treatments [12].

                    Copes was one of the four initial trustees of the Scoliosis Care Foundation, which was founded by Gary A. Deutschman, D.C., who practices in New York City. After working with Copes for several years, Deutschman developed his own program that he says "offers corrective and palliative therapy for all degrees of spinal curvature." [13]

                    There is no evidence that chiropractic treatment can reduce or prevent scoliotic curvature. In 2001, for example, researchers at two chiropractic colleges reported that chiropractic intervention had no discernible effect on the scoliotic curves of children ages 6 to 12. The study involved 42 children who were treated for a year with full-spine manipulation. Some were also treated with heel lifts, postural counseling, and/or lifestyle counseling. The scoliotic curves ranged from 6 to 20 degrees. The authors stated that although case reports abound, this was the first published clinical trial of the effect of chiropractic treatment on adolescent scoliosis [14].
                    Last edited by Celia; 01-12-2007, 10:04 AM.

                    Canadian eh
                    Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      What you have proposed as your basis for this 'discussion' (studies) is not invalid, but it is not 'clinically' conclusive by any means either
                      studies are important, but only a small part of the big picture
                      I am sure though that you agree that it is a question of emphasis, and that properly conducted studies are more then just a small part, they must be the major component of the "big picture" which determines whether treatment is safe and effective and therefore worthwhile. The fact that some studies fail to find "unforeseen consequences", as you correctly point out, doesn't mean that this reduces the relevance of studies, it means that we even have to try harder to improve the quality of the studies which get conducted.

                      If studies sometimes fail to foresee certain consequences, thepicture for treatment without any properly conducted studies must even be bleaker, and risk of onforeseen consequences even larger.

                      as I have said before "if we do not have evidence somethings works, we do not have the evidence neither that it is not going to do any (unforeseen) harm"

                      Still, I agree that there is a small part in all this for a bit of experimental or common sense type of work; many major scientific discoveries and breakthroughs started of as an unsubstantiated hypothesis. (but subsequently would have been subject to rigorous scientific studies and validation)

                      gerbo
                      Last edited by gerbo; 01-07-2007, 03:43 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        vestibular rehabilitation???

                        Dr. G. Deutchman,DC, New York City has this link on his web page:

                        http://www.scoliosissystems.com/Corner/chiro_vestib.htm

                        However, my search of the National library of Medicine shows vestibular rehabilitation sometimes useful for dizziness, instability from brain injuries, ear disorders and brain tumors-to name a few. Nothing at all about scoliosis. One reference, by chiropractors discuss "exploration".
                        Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
                        Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Gerbo,
                          I understand your point on working harder to perform better studies and I agree... and some things require time to discover their full impact, successful or not.

                          As you know, I agree they play an important role. But clinical findings are a major compenent in the big picture as well, if not more so than a study (10 -20 people, as one study had that you cited to support something one time, is not enough to constitute a "major componenet"). I'm right there with you Gerbo, but I'm also not the type of person who needs a study to be performed on my shoes, just to show their effectiveness at protecting my feet from the elements. Some things are quite logical and based upon data already compiled in related categories. And since ideopathic scoliosis is not genetically derived, at least in many cases that we know, then we must view it for what it is... a condition involving a lateral curvature/rotation of the spine, but not always or necessarily a 'problem' with the spine itself.

                          I think it's safe to say that there is an adequate amount of education behind the M.D.s practiciing vest rehab to know that people are in good hands. Also, we're talking about proprioceptive exercises (yes, including use of the eyes as well)... when was the last time you heard or read of someone being injured or harmed by such activities???

                          I know you're intentions are good here Gerbo... I do want to ask this though to know that you're not being hypocritical. Have there been studies done to show the effect (positive/neutral/negative) on "stretching ligaments" along the spine as a complimentary treatment for scoliosis? And are you actually stretching the "ligaments" or the muscles/muscular fascia?(retorical question) I know the stretching you do with your daughter "makes sense" to you, however do you hold yourself and all of your chosen methods to the same standards as you do this current topic? Are there significant studies done to prove the efficacy of that approach and how do you know those tissues you're stretching aren't contracting/bracing to protect something? Etc.....

                          You can see that this type of questioning could go on and on.... . Perspective is key here, and acknowledging its legitimacey in other disorders involving the neuromusculoskeletal system doesn't really place it very far from scoliosis... would you not agree?

                          My whole point here being, you cannot base an argument on studies alone. And unless someone has the qualifications to speak of it otherwise, it's a rather mute point.

                          structural

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Celia,

                            Quackwatch is your source for info... That explains a lot!

                            I don't know why or how you can compare me, or a valid medical practice (vestibular rehab), to some chiropractor who thought he was going to change scoliosis with nutrition/hormonal support, muscle stimulation and chiropractic adjustments. Whatever this Mr. Copes was doing sounds absurd... the only valid aspect to his treatment seamed to be the bracing (although I know nothing about the Copes brace specifically so maybe that's a sham too) and the vest/ocular rehab. You've got to be crazy to think that nutrition/hormonal support and electric stim. is going to change a curve... that's NOT my belief.

                            Working with a central informational component to the source of sympathetic neural activity (vestibular system) in the spine... YES, that makes perfect sense.

                            My beliefs, experience and practice are rooted quite firmly in the physical and direct nature of the condition, don't attempt to redeem yourself by lumping me or others into this guys category.

                            I STILL stand behind vestibular rehab in its applicable use in some cases of scoliosis! And you, or anyone else, cannot discredit the field in general, or its potential relevancy in the matter. Your studies/quotes/'research' is strictly black and white - this will 'fix' it by itself and this won't.... However nobody here, including myself, was proposing that it would "correct" a scoliosis by itself... ! And I still haven't seen anything that has been more than mild to moderately consistantly successful in "fixing" scoliosis and it's associated problems. Those statistics might get better however if we look beyond the mechanical aspect alone.

                            Have you found any of the info on the surgeons out there who have been found responsible for negligence, fraud and deceit as well? Or should I get it for you just to be clear this rediculous display of fraud and negligence goes both ways Celia? You are clearly anti-chiropractic.... yet what we are talking about here is not chiropractics! It's a field of internal medicine. To dismiss it's potential benefit due to your own personal bias, well... .?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by structural75
                              ... From the sounds of a previous poster who was advocating its use and saw the benefits of the work...
                              I'm sure the same could be said for people who were in the Copes program

                              Canadian eh
                              Daughter, Deirdre born Oct 2000. Diagnosed with 60 degree curve at the age of 19 months. Serial casting by Dr. Hedden at Sick Kid's Hospital. Currently being treated by Dr. Rivard and Dr. Coillard in Montreal with the Spinecor brace and curve is holding at "2" degrees. Next appointment 2008

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I'm sure it could... as well as others like the 'wait and watch' approach, surgery, spinecor bracing, scroth, PT, torsorotations, etc. ... As we all know, none of these methods provide consistant, long-term results in every case. Maybe we should investigate those less-than-successful cases as well for fraudulent claims.?

                                In fact I am a firm believer that the "wait and watch" advice given by many M.D.s is absolute pure ignorant negligence... What about holding those Doctors accountable for misleading people to believe that it will improve on its own only to see them spiral into more unfortunate circumstances?

                                I see what you're saying Celia, and I don't want to see people get taken advantage of either. Keep in mind that those undergoing spinecor treatment by the Doctors in Montreal are literally in the midst of a 'study' as we speak. We will not know anything about its long-term efficacy for years to come. Hopefully it works... time is of the essence.

                                Comment

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