Cranial Sacral Massage?

[Celia]

Gerbo,

Is this doctor still practicing or has he been committed to an insane asylum?????


*****

[gerbo]

Although the baby had never been exposed to English, Upledger decided to see whether the baby's "Inner Physician" would communicate with him via the craniosacral system:

I requested aloud in English that the craniosacral rhythm stop if the answer to a question was "yes" and not stop if the answer was "no." The rhythm stopped for about ten seconds. I took this as an indication that I was being understood. I then asked if it was possible during this session for the rhythm to stop only in response to my question and not for other reasons, such as body position, etc., The rhythm stopped again. I was feeling more confident.

so if this indeed an true quote, you are really saying (with a straight face and uncrossed fingers) that this all makes sense to you?

with regards to your question what i think of a surgeon referring somebody to a person who can write that kind of stuff; i think he must have been out of his mind (prominent or not).

Anything else you would like me to comment on?

[structural75]

Anything else you would like me to comment on?

No Master Gerbo... You've done a convincing job at revealing the truth, that will be all. It is clear that you have a firm understanding of the work. Who wouldn't after reading one excerpt from one book? Why look any further before casting ignorant false assumptions? Who needs medical journal, peer reviewed information or conventional research when you've got a few abstract paragraphs?

Do I ask my clients' "inner physician" questions? No, I do not. But I do 'listen' to their system and respond accordingly... which is more than I can say for most MDs who are telling their patients that the pain is in their heads and scoliosis does not cause pain, etc.... 'But here's an injection to ease the symptom, as far the cause... well sorry, can't help you with that because I don't see one'. Or try nerve ablation... that's a brilliant idea.. burn the nerve as to cease ALL sensation and receptivity to a region only to let the problem get worse in the meantime... but at least they won't feel it as it's happening until the nerve grows back. ????? If these are the kinds of "scientific methods" that you feel are reasonable and of sound mind.... Is this 'health' care or 'disease' management?

Gerbo: with regards to your question what i think of a surgeon referring somebody to a person who can write that kind of stuff; i think he must have been out of his mind (prominent or not).

Apparently being out of ones mind was a prerequisite for all involved in saving these children's lives then. Good thing convention took a back seat for this one.



p.s. - Thanks for the comments on the other two points I had mentioned... nice to know you conveniently skip over matters that don't serve you well.

[structural75]

Celia: Is this doctor still practicing or has he been committed to an insane asylum?????

Wouldn't private messaging be a more appropriate place for wasteful comments like these?

[structural75]

Cranial osteopathy is, perhaps, one of the most misunderstood practices in osteopathic medicine, even as studies on its outcomes and underlying mechanisms continue to expand the knowledge and effectiveness of the field.

The term "cranial osteopathy" is the preferred term, though it is often used interchangeably with what is popularly known as "cranial-sacral therapy."

..........................................

Dr. Grimshaw knows cranial osteopathy’s effectiveness because he has seen it first hand. One of Dr. Grimshaw’s most successful cases involved a six-year old girl who had been referred to his clinic by an outside physician. Suffering from chronic headaches and sinus infections, the girl had had 14 surgeries over the course of her life without much improvement. Dr. Grimshaw found tremendous restrictions in her cranial-sacral system, removed as many as he could, and the girl’s sinuses began to drain and her headaches lessened. Even the girl’s teachers noticed the dramatic improvement.

Despite successes like these, it is clear that cranial osteopathy is still a minority practice in what is still a minority profession. As Dr. Briner explains, although the field is extremely promising, it is relatively slow to grow because "there aren’t an overwhelming number of NIH grants to study this kind of thing. Most of the relevant studies have been conducted by a small group of very determined researchers."

http://www.com.msu.edu/communique/sp...02/cranial.htm

[structural75]

Aahhhh... I see where you pulled that excerpt from, quackwatch! Your 'educating' yourself on a website dovoted to discrediting anything that moves! The fact that you turn to stephen barrett for information is outrageous... many credibility points lost on that one. Some of his info is accurate, but some is also as outdated as he is. He apparently doesn't like to follow up with the recent studies that offer confirmation to what he proposes as "false".

[debigolebiwski]

Why the tension?

What's happened to the forum? We could meet here to talk among each other and get information from our experiences but now, it has become a boxing ring.

Incidentally, I was trying to post to the Spinecor thread and it was completely deleted while I was in the process. Check this out.......
http://www.scoliosis.org/resources/medicalupdates/spinecor.php

Braceguy did have alot of useful information, he never ever had anything bad to say other than voicing his opinion. He had witnessed things that he felt were inappropriate.

I don' t know anything about this cranial thing, but if there's a brace out there that might possibly help me with these terrible spasms, I am interested. I am not a doctor by a long shot, but I've suffered for 49 years with scoliosis and I'm willing to try anything. As for it (Spinecor) failing, well, the milwaukee brace I wore for 15 years of my life failed, too. But, I'm not looking for correction. I only ask for relief. Right now, I am wearing this metal/plastic body jacket to support my upper torso. My husband has grown cold because I'm wearing it. If there is anything out there that "might" help this istuation, I am willing to try it. The spinecor would not be as visible as this jacket. I have lost my muscles now in my back. I cannot function now without support of some kind. So please don't bash anyone's opinions. And don't belittle the hopes and dreams of the people in here. We get enough abuse outside this forum.

God Bless all of you who have children in any brace. You have no way of knowing how bad they honestly feel. The loss of self-esteem will remain with them for the rest of their lives. Do what you can for them while you can. I thanks Braceguy for talking to me. He talked with me when no one else would listen.

So, Drs, shame on you for trying to make this forum such a disgraceful place. If you don't have patients right now, research the Spinecor and come back and talk with those of us who are worried and scared dealing with scoliosis.

I am a cancer survivor. This scoliosis has effects that even cancer doesn't!

Have a blessed day, everyone. Keep on believing and asking and hoping. What is right for one is not right for another. Believe me, I know after wearing the milwaukee for that length of time and finding out it failed.

[structural75]

I'm sorry for the constant brawling here... I feel the same way you do. Which is why I feel that it is inappropriate for folks to post onto a thread such as this one only to debunk and discredit someone else's experience or potential interest. Nothing bothers me more than uneducated statements being put forth as fact.

You mention something that often gets lost in these dubious debates over 'scientific validity'. And that is the emotional and psychological aspect of having scoliosis. There may not be the studies certain folks would like to see for certain work specifically pertaining to scoliosis, but adults and children alike are treated with respect, compassion and dignity in my practice. And I'm sorry Gerbo if that's too esoteric for you. It's more than just a biomechanical event in a persons life, as I'm sure you can attest.

What is right for one is not right for another.

I couldn't agree more... so I think it's only fair that everyone has a right to present and explore all of the options out there without unjust disgrace of them.

I think you put it best....

So please don't bash anyone's opinions. And don't belittle the hopes and dreams of the people in here.

[debigolebiwski]

Structure.........so you are a doctor?

I am in desperate search of a very good doctor. Here in Mississippi, there are none. My doctor just got caught billing my insurance for visits to her office that I didn't even make. (The latest was last week when her office was closed for Spring Break). She is so very much against helping me to find a better answer than this body jacket. I think honestly that she was hanging onto me so that I would continue being her guinea pig for the next several years. But then that couldn't be true either because I felt that she was using me to see what she would need to do for her own daughters who have scoliosis. Whatever the case, I need a real doctor and a real orthotist. Apparently the two that I have here in MS are not necessarily keeping my best interest at hand. I thank you for your final kindness. Please understand that those of us who are here because we are searching for answers could use your support rather than your bashing. Sincerely.........
Debi

[structural75]

Hi Debi,
No, I am not a Doctor. I used to publicly share my profession on this forum but it seems as though every time I do certain people take the opportunity to judge it unfairly.... . Chronic pain is generally what people arrive at my office to address, so if there's anything I can suggest to you for the pain just private message me.

I'm sorry to hear of your improper and misguided care by your MD. Maybe Linda Racine can direct you to a reputable Dr. in your area, she has a wealth of resources in that department. Bracing and so forth is not my area of expertise or qualifications, ....but it sounds as though spinecor may possibly be of great benefit to you to begin strengthening and stabilizing your back. I would suspect if your musculature has weakened significantly from being in the hard brace that this type of transition would have to be monitored and assisted by a qualified PT until you were strong enough to function daily with a flexible brace.

Please understand that those of us who are here because we are searching for answers could use your support rather than your bashing.

I'm trying real hard... it's difficult to not get caught up in these debates when everytime a 'different' complimentary approach is suggested, certain folks do everything in their power to dismiss it. In an attempt to keep this forum open to more diverse options, I have no choice but to defend those that I know to be credible... I'm sorry people think I'm the cause of the bashing... .

Best to you,
structural

[Karen Ocker]

Getting relief brace or otherwise

Debi,
If you could find a Pilates studio near you or at least someone who is trained in the disclipline you could strengthen your trunk and be more comfortable. That has been my experience both before and after my surgery. As matter of fact the hospital where I has surgery offers this program.

Is there any way you could go to a neighboring state to consult a scoliosis specialist? That's what I did.

www.pilates.com

[debigolebiwski]

Thanks Karen

There isn't much around here so I would need to go to Memhis, TN I suppose. I haven't tried travel that far in awhile. I do exercise but it's getting difficult now.

[kootenaygal]

Cranial Sacral Massage

I have had Cranial Sacral therapy, and visceral manipulation....and can say, that both treatments helped me immensely. I have kyphoscolisis....my rib cage, hardly moves when I take a deep breath. But after Cranial Sacral, it's amazing how easily my ribs expand!! And I feel so much better. I'm on a oxygen concentrator at night...there is a definite decrease in my oxygen saturation, when I lay down. So any treatment, to increase my lung function is vital to me.

I have also had visceral manipulation as well. When I collapse, the area underneath my left breast, pops out. I can cup the area in my hand...and it's hard as rock, painful. Visceral manipulation has helped this so much. I usually need 2 weekly treatments...and then it's gone for a few weeks.

I respond very strongly to these energy healing treatments...others may not. I do have Reiki Training. But I can say, these treatments have really helped me !! They aren't just taking my $$ !! My physio therapist is thrilled to see their effect on my body!

I have my 2nd consult with a back surgeon, this week. I'm very anxious to hear if I'm a good candidate, for surgery involving rods etc. I'm terrified...but not having the surgery, may cause more problems to my vital organs as I continue to collapse, plus more pain.

Kootenaygal

[rohrer01]

My 11 year old daughter was just recently diagnosed with a double major curve, not yet in a brace. Her curve is at 26 degrees and we are on a four month observation. I was wondering if anyone has used cranial sacral massage with good results? Thank you!

My physiatrist (yes, an MD) referred me to a PT who specializes in cranial/sacral release. When I got there I joked with the PT about what it meant. I asked her if she was going to pull my head out of my rear end. She just laughed and asked me if I had schooling. We talked about my education for a while. She described the "rhythm" that was mentioned in this thread. The only thing she did was put her hands under certain areas of my body while laying supine. I went back for a couple more treatments, meanwhile she gave me some exercises that I could use for immediate pain relief, which did work to some extent and very temporarily. All I can say about the experience is what I told my husband. You can put your hands under me the same as she can and save us the $$$. Not that she wasn't a nice lady, but the whole experience seemed pointless. I thought maybe it was intended as a placebo and the doctor just wanted to know if it worked so he would know how to proceed. Sorry if I offend anyone, but I don't believe that this approach holds any real merit. So, either I am a failure story or this is quackery (honestly believed and unintended). You can all make your own decisions about this. I have mine, and like I said, nothing was really done except putting hands under my body (head and tailbone among other places along the ribs and spine). I felt it was a pointless waste of time and money, for me.

[Pooka1]

Periodic Table of Irrational Nonsense

Periodic Table of Irrational Nonsense

"Cranial osteopathy" is Element 63 (Symbol BP) in the Quackblock (below the main table) on the Traditional nonsense line...

the-periodic-table-of irrational-nonsense

Other elements mentioned in this thread are on the periodic table also...

Reiki - Element 65 (Rk)

Of course chiro is there.. Element 59 Cp) on the same line as Reiki.