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Dr. Woggon - Clear Institute treatment

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  • #31
    I have looked at the Rahmouni website and seen the results, I also wondered how comfortable is a brace than can achieve that kind of correction. Bzebra is the German lady who had significant correction through the Schroth method as a teenager and has maintained it through her 30's by wearing a Rahmouni-made brace only at night. I'm not sure we have anything comparable in the States, but there is an orthotist who makes Cheneau braces, I don't know much about them, couldn't find a whole lot on the internet except for pictures. Our best chance is continuing with the Spinecor and getting adjustments as necessary, at least I know she'll wear it!

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    • #32
      Motivation

      Originally posted by Sherie

      By the way, any tips on how to keep a 14 year old motivated???
      She's a really good, sweet girl, but still a teenager. I'll have to withhold food or something I guess.
      Hi Sherie,

      I would think that the best motivation for your daughter is self-motivation. The more she adultly takes ownership of her own health the better. This is not like going to music lessons because your mom tells you so. If minimizing the amount of pain and future health problems she is likely to suffer is not motivation enough, I remember as a teenager the misery of having a poor self-image. I don't recall ever talking to my parents about it as a teenager, and perhaps your daughter hasn't said anything, but chances are that deep down there is plenty of unexpressed (and unexpressable) negative feelings about her body. That she can personally do something about it should be empowering and motivating.

      As a side note, I did do some therapy with an osteopath as a teenager, which in retrospect was totally wrong for my condition. I was completely dedicated to following the program, only to see my condition worsen dramatically. I felt angry and betrayed and completely demotivated. The dramatic early results your daughter is likely to see with Dr. Woggon should be heartening, but it would be good to set expectations that there will be setbacks and plateaus where progress will not be so noticeable.

      Most importantly, in those awkward teenage years where gym class is an agony your daughter needs unconditional love and acceptance about her body. Self-criticism, body-shame and absence of self-worth may be the most insidious aspects of scoliosis to overcome over a lifetime. The loving parenting she imprints from her father and mother now will be the loving parents she carries inside of her the rest of her life.

      I wish I could turn back the clock to when I was 14 and get this therapy. I hope it works out for your daughter.

      Take care,
      Christophe

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      • #33
        Oh my goodness. I am still trying to come to grips that I will die 14 years earlier because of my scoliosis. Great way to end the week.

        Macky
        Operation 1966, Fused from T4 to L3, had Harrington rods inserted. Originally had an 85 degree Thoracic curve with lumbar scoliosis as well but had a good correction.
        Perfectly normal life till 1997 but now in a lot of pain daily. Consider myself very fortunate though.

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        • #34
          Sherie,

          New to site. How long has your daughter worn the Spinecor? Has it helped. I have a 14 yr that I am looking at it for. Will also ask on the spinecor forum.

          Motivation..... No hope, they are slugs
          But we are looking at surg, so looking @everything else.

          neva

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          • #35
            Hi Neva,

            I'm sorry to say that no, it hasn't helped so far. I think it has a lot to do as to how large the curve is when you start and the age of the patient. Sheena has an s-curve, it's now 40T/52L. She started wearing it in April this year and her curves were 34T/45L. As you can see, she's still progressing. She just turned 14 in Aug. The pattern I've seen on the Spinecor thread, the younger they start and the smaller the curve, the more successful they've been. I will say this, when she wears her brace, her posture is nearly perfect, you can hardly tell anything is wrong. My advice to you is if you can afford it, go to Montreal for the initial fitting, I wish I had so I wouldn't be wondering if it was done properly from the beginning. We will probably still go later this year, but I think it's too late for the brace to help. What are your daugher's curves?

            Yes, slug pretty much sums it up, motivation is probably going to involve whips and chains.

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            • #36
              I did similar techniques with my chiropracter. It did significantly help the pain but I did not notice much difference in the curve and it does require significant commitment that I unfortunately do not have time for (full-time job and 2 small children). Also, I did not exercise as much as those in the study. I do think the wedges help with streching out your muscles but I did not like wearing a wieght on my head it killed my sinuses!
              Jan
              Last edited by jsully; 09-17-2006, 08:45 PM. Reason: Pettibon system
              36 year young cardiac RN
              old curve C 29, T 70, L 50
              new curve C 7, T 23, L 20
              Surgery June 11, UCH, Dr. Cronen T2-L5, posterior
              Revision December 20 L5-S1 with pelvic fixation
              and Osteotomy to L3 at Tampa General Hospital

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              • #37
                Something to think about

                When reading the last few posts on the Clear Institute and then Sherie's posts about taking her 14-year old there (currently wearing SpineCor) I had an idea I'd like to share. I wonder if there would be some way to "jump start" the correction for our kids by having them do the Clear Institue program for a week or so and get their curves down and then put them in the SpineCor brace? Most of our kids would probably not have the committment to do all the exercises (on a permanent basis) that are necessary to hold the correction but I'm wondering if the SpineCor brace would hold it along with maybe doing a few key exercises. I don't know what all the program involves so maybe the two treatments are mutually exclusive but it would be great to get a dialog going betweent the doctors/experts for each treatment.

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                • #38
                  clear institute

                  LATigner: I've been wondering the same thing. Great minds think alike. Meagain

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Clear Institute

                    Hi Sara, I don't know if anyone has replied to you yet since you posted last November. We just got back from the Clear Institute and had good results. What I like most about the clinic is that they do try to correct some of the possible causes of our scoliosis since most people with scoliosis have a straight neck. Over the week, the curve was put back into our necks and our spines were 'straightened' using vibration, weights and manipulation. My scoliosis which was at a 25 degree curve in my upper back was reduced to 16 degrees. My daughter who had a 30 degree upper curve was reduced to 20 degrees, and her lower curve of 45 degrees was reduced to 37 degrees. Nothing is permanent. It is up to us to maintain the progress that was made through specific exercises and using a vibration chair. There is no procedure that I know of that will "fix" scoliosis. It is an ongoing condition of the spine that may be improved through alternate methods to surgery. Dr. Woggon is genuine and has dedicated his life to understanding and treating scoliosis. For $3000 we received over 25 hours of treatment, scads of x-rays, a specific plan for exercises for our scoliosis, vitamins, and tons of exercise equipment. The follow-up report was professional and well documented. If we had the time, I would have stayed for two weeks instead of the one. But do your research and that way you will feel well-informed when making your decision.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sherie
                      Hi Neva,

                      I'm sorry to say that no, it hasn't helped so far. I think it has a lot to do as to how large the curve is when you start and the age of the patient. Sheena has an s-curve, it's now 40T/52L. She started wearing it in April this year and her curves were 34T/45L. As you can see, she's still progressing. She just turned 14 in Aug. The pattern I've seen on the Spinecor thread, the younger they start and the smaller the curve, the more successful they've been. I will say this, when she wears her brace, her posture is nearly perfect, you can hardly tell anything is wrong. My advice to you is if you can afford it, go to Montreal for the initial fitting, I wish I had so I wouldn't be wondering if it was done properly from the beginning. We will probably still go later this year, but I think it's too late for the brace to help. What are your daugher's curves?

                      Yes, slug pretty much sums it up, motivation is probably going to involve whips and chains.




                      Sherri
                      you may want to look into the Cheneau brace.... Several on this site are using it, along with Schroth methods of exercise.. My daughter is wearing it, and doing great... her curves started at 39'and 40' cuurrent IN BRACE xray show curves at 30'and 25'. we will have an out of brace xray in 3 months.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by scoliomom
                        Sherri
                        you may want to look into the Cheneau brace.... Several on this site are using it, along with Schroth methods of exercise.. My daughter is wearing it, and doing great... her curves started at 39'and 40' cuurrent IN BRACE xray show curves at 30'and 25'. we will have an out of brace xray in 3 months.
                        Thanks Scoliomom for encouraging other children and their parents to be ahead of the curve by investing their time in the combination of the Schroth Method and the Chaneau brace . I am impress .Tx for your courage on investigating and practicing another options.

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                        • #42
                          Scoliomom

                          I appreciate the advise but we're already scheduled for surgery, she's at 65 in her lumbar (mayber higher by now). I just don't think it's prudent at this point to wait or hope for a miracle. I wish you the best, it sounds like you're getting good results.

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                          • #43
                            Dr. Lawrence, Minnesota-Idiopathic Scoliosis

                            We are seriously considering taking our 13 year old daughter - who has a severe idiopathic scoliosis - to Dr. Lawrence (Pettibon treatment) in Minnesota for a three week intensive treatment. Her curves are T50 and L48. We are wondering if anyone has had any success with the Pettibon treatment with a child this age?
                            (Dr. Lawrence worked with Dr. Woggon and Dr. Morningstar on a research project)
                            Ruth, 50 years old (s-shaped 30 degree scoliosis) with degenerative disc disease, married to Mike. Mother to two children - Son 18 and daughter 14. Both have idiopathic scoliosis. Son (T38, L29) has not needed surgery to date. Daughter (March 08 - T62, L63).

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                            • #44
                              Our daughter started her Pettibon treatments today with her chiropractor here in Ottawa. Waiting to get more details for the trip to the U.S. for an intensive treatment. Really hoping this works since her curves are T50 and L48 which probably means surgery if it doesn't since she is a Risser 0.
                              Ruth, 50 years old (s-shaped 30 degree scoliosis) with degenerative disc disease, married to Mike. Mother to two children - Son 18 and daughter 14. Both have idiopathic scoliosis. Son (T38, L29) has not needed surgery to date. Daughter (March 08 - T62, L63).

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Hello RTREMB

                                We went to Dr. Woggon last year in Sept. for the Clear Institute treatment. It was a one week intensive treatment that involved many different things including the pettibon weights. What they don't tell you upfront is that they don't know if this will result in a permanent correction or not. When we were finished, he gave us a 4 year plan, to a kid, that's an eternity. It was not a 15 minute ordeal either, it was a 1 1/2 hour regimen, initially 2x/day then 1x/day after 4 months. I was very discouraged to hear that, especially not knowing what the outcome would be after 4 years. I'm convinced now that there would not be permanent correction because of the severity of her curve, I believe at this point there are forces involved that can't be stopped by bracing or therapy.

                                I don't want to discourage you, I too was trying to do anything to prevent surgery, but before committing to anything, ask for hard evidence. See if they have xrays of patients who show definite, lasting improvement several years after stopping therapy unless you're daughter is committed to a lifelong ordeal. Ask upfront how long do they expect treatment to last. It was very costly for us and we have nothing to show except that I feel we exhausted all of our options and I can be at peace with myself that we did what we could.

                                She was also in the Spinecor brace, another very expensive treatment. Her lumbar curve was already about 42 when she was initially fitted. She did not get any correction, in fact, her curves increased over a 6 month time. I spoke with Dr. Couillard in Montreal, she said a lumbar curve over 40 is very stiff and difficult to treat. I really think you should consult with her or Dr. Rivard and have them fit her for the brace if they think it will help.

                                I truly wish your daughter the best, again, I don't want to discourage you, just wanted to share our experience.

                                Good luck

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