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Thread: Dr. Woggon - Clear Institute treatment

  1. #1
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    Dr. Woggon - Clear Institute treatment

    I just got a reply from Dr. Woggon of the Clear Institute saying he could fix my curve in 1-2 weeks in Minnisota 30%-50%. Does anyone know anything about this doctor or Clear Institute? The treatment is rather expensive and seems very brief for the amount they claim they can fix.

  2. #2
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    Ask for a money back guarantee that the improvement is permanent.

    --Linda

  3. #3
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    Linda, Isnt that the place that Katie (denverbackchick) was going to? I think she disappeared off the face of the earth. No replies to anything in awhile.

  4. #4
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    Sara,
    Just be aware that the old saying about If it's to good to be true it usually is!!!

    Like Linda said get a WRITTEN money back guarantee before you give him one $
    SandyC

  5. #5
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    chiropractic, physical therapy, and scoliosis

    I'm still a bit skeptical on Dr. Woggon's claims. Success in treating scoliosis via this method depends first and foremost on the "flexibility" of the curve. A curve that is very rigid and fixed (i.e., does not improve in the supine position versus AP or PA) is unlikely to respond to physical therapy OR chiropractic. Secondly, any improvement will require some type of maintenance. This goes for both physical therapy AND chiropractic manipulation. If you're familiar with the "vicious cycle" theory, this means that both of these techniques do help correct the "asymmetrical loading", but until the root cause is addressed or the asymmetrical loading totally reversed, the curvature will probably restart the cycle.

    I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's been treated by Dr. Woggon and if they have been able to maintain any correction.
    28 degrees cervicothoracic, 34 degrees thoracolumbar, not diagnosed until age 34. Get yourself and your children screened early!

  6. #6
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    If you're familiar with the "vicious cycle" theory, this means that both of these techniques do help correct the "asymmetrical loading", but until the root cause is addressed or the asymmetrical loading totally reversed, the curvature will probably restart the cycle
    have you got any references to (decent) literature on this?

  7. #7
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    I've never heard of the "asymmetrical loading" being reversed. When one's vertebrae are wedge shaped, nature isn't going to reshape them.

    --Linda

  8. #8
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    Question

    Professor,
    Would you mind explaining asymmetrical loading for me? I would like to understand this better and I'm sure other people reading this are trying to follow along as well might be having some difficulties if we don't understand what this is.

    Thanks! :0
    36 year old single mom of teens ages 14 & 15.
    Anterior/posterior spinal fusion on February 9th & 16th 2006 with Dr. Anthony Moreno who now has his own practice.
    Fused from T-3 to S-1 (sacrum)
    Curve pre-op = 70 degrees
    Curve post op = 20 degrees
    No pain anymore!!
    Google is your friend

    I am not a doctor and will never give medical advice. I will support and answer questions from personal experience only.

  9. #9
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    asymmetrical forces

    I was using the term incorrectly, as the term when first used meant the forces that cause uneven growth along the growth plates of the vertebrae. What I meant was the asymmetrical forces that the vertebrae and disks are subjected to because of the curvature.

    Physical manipulation will correct this, but until the actual force that's causing the curvature to form in the first place is identified and corrected, there will still be a propensity for the spine to revert to the scoliotic state.

    And yes, wedge-shaped vertebrae don't help, that's part of the "vicious cycle" theory. The wedge-shaped vertebrae exacerbate the problem. Whether they're the cause of it or a result of some other force driving the formation of the curvature is still a subject of debate.
    28 degrees cervicothoracic, 34 degrees thoracolumbar, not diagnosed until age 34. Get yourself and your children screened early!

  10. #10
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    bone growth

    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine
    I've never heard of the "asymmetrical loading" being reversed. When one's vertebrae are wedge shaped, nature isn't going to reshape them.

    --Linda
    Actually, bone is constantly being remodeled. For instance, people who do repetitive motions day in and day out (manual labor or bodybuilding) will undergo bone growth at the attachment points for the muscles that are being developed in tandem with the repetitive movement. A larger muscle needs a larger insertion to pull on. Granted, the growth will be nowhere near as substantial as you would see in someone who's not yet reached skeletal maturity, but there is some remodeling and reshaping of bone that does occur, just as it does occur when a bone is broken and reset.

    I don't think this force would be substantial enough to reshape a wedged vertebra, though. My point from the earlier post is that while physical manipulation may temporarily "correct" the curvature, until the forces that drive the spine into that shape (wedged vertebrae, unequal muscle strength, etc.) are addressed, any correction that's seen will revert back to the original state.
    28 degrees cervicothoracic, 34 degrees thoracolumbar, not diagnosed until age 34. Get yourself and your children screened early!

  11. #11
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    until the forces that drive the spine into that shape (wedged vertebrae, unequal muscle strength, etc.) are addressed, any correction that's seen will revert back to the original state.
    so, how do you think inequal musclestrength drive the spine into a curve and what could one do to address this??

  12. #12
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    Professor,
    Thank you very much for answering my question. I have a better understanding of this now.
    36 year old single mom of teens ages 14 & 15.
    Anterior/posterior spinal fusion on February 9th & 16th 2006 with Dr. Anthony Moreno who now has his own practice.
    Fused from T-3 to S-1 (sacrum)
    Curve pre-op = 70 degrees
    Curve post op = 20 degrees
    No pain anymore!!
    Google is your friend

    I am not a doctor and will never give medical advice. I will support and answer questions from personal experience only.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Southeastern US
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    57
    Quote Originally Posted by gerbo
    so, how do you think inequal musclestrength drive the spine into a curve and what could one do to address this??
    Nobody's really sure whether asymmetrical musculature can cause spinal deformity, or if it's a secondary effect of whatever's driving the curvature.

    Once the curve is set in place (especially in an adult), your musculature has developed more or less to compensate for the curvature in your posture. We all know about those little "postural adaptations" we all have that are unique. Those muscular adaptations will likely want to "fight" any correction made by physical manipulation to the spine and pull the spine back into the scoliotic curvature. But, as body building can develop your biceps, I'm sure that the back and spinal muscles can be "retrained" with enough effort, but this is something that would have to be done constantly.
    28 degrees cervicothoracic, 34 degrees thoracolumbar, not diagnosed until age 34. Get yourself and your children screened early!

  14. #14
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    NJ
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    Question

    What are you a professor of????
    Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
    Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction

  15. #15
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    Apr 2006
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    2

    re: Clear Institute Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Sara
    I just got a reply from Dr. Woggon of the Clear Institute saying he could fix my curve in 1-2 weeks in Minnisota 30%-50%. Does anyone know anything about this doctor or Clear Institute? The treatment is rather expensive and seems very brief for the amount they claim they can fix.
    I was referred to Dr. Hersh of the Scoliosis Correction Center of N.E., by Dr. Woggon. The CLEAR method makes sense to me. I don't think they are promising magical long term results—the patient needs to keep up with excersises after the treatment ends. I was given an outline for a plan of therapy that would entail visits of 2- 3 times a week for the first 3 months,approx.), with 6 months of follow up (about once/mo.), along with 40 minutes of daily excercises. I asked about the 1 week to 2 week therapy that some people have claimed have given them such good results. Dr. Hersh said it was for people traveling a great distance, it is very intensive and they need to keep up the excersises.
    I was impressed by the theory and was shown before/after x-rays of results. I was also x-rayed. I have a typical S-curve (not sure the degrees), my head thrusts forward and my neck does not curve normally. I was x-rayed with weights on my head. The weights forced my head into a normal position to compensate for the weight, and the x-ray showed that they caused my head to sit back and my neck to curve normally.
    I plan to go ahead with the treatment if/when I can afford the time and money. I will keep you posted of my results, and would like to hear from anyone who has undergone this treatment.

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