Chiropratic Hope!! Had to Share!!

[denverbackchic]

I am happy that you are seeing results from this treatment. You seem very optimistic about it and I wish you continued success.
I am actually relplying to a comment about surgeons being "surgeons" and that is all they want to do is cut open. I would like to say that it is not always the case. My "surgeon" is a D.O. and does everything in his power not to cut. In his office they have pain management, physical therapy, chiropractic, accupuncture, and other things that I cant even remember now. He works with a spine foundation trying to help build awareness in the community about early screening and detection of scoli so that things can be done to help prevent the curves from increasing and having to have surgery. It seems like you might have had a bad experience with a surgeon and if that is the case I am sorry. I too had a bad experience with my first ortho in the fact that he wouldnt admit my curve was progressing yet my shoulder somehow ended up by my ear. By the time I got a second opinion my back was going out at least 2 times a month if not more and it was affecting my daily activities. I would have loved to try some form of alternative treatments, but was unable to.
You cant say that all surgeons just want to cut and get money from it. My surgeon has not made a penny off of me and I have had 2 surgeries and multiple diagnositc scans (MRI, bone scans, CT scans, x-rays). It is because of his work with the spine foundation that I was able to have surgery and get my life back to "normal" or whatever that is.

That is fair Mandy. I'm apologize soley to you. I am happy your surgery was a success and yes I have had a bad experience. My father almost died twice at the hands of his back surgeon. He has had 4 surgeries for what they told him would take 1 and is an old man at 50. He is in constant pain. My best friend Jaqueline has had 2 surgeries for what they said would take 1. Her "improvement" was going from 5 pain killers a day to 3. Another friend of mine was killed in a minor car wreck b/c she had spinal fusion and her back would not flex and it snaped her spinal cord (at least that is the report after the accident.) So yes, it has been rough for me losing and almost losing people to this. It makes me very passionate about finding another way. I am not saying this to scare anyone, but so many people on here are are willing to "warn" people against chiros, but get downright mad if you mention your personal stories about surgery, or if you had a "good " experience with a chiro such as I have had.

I just pray each night there is a better way. I am so glad your treatment worked and I do know that there are cases where it is unavoidable. I am not pointing fingers at people in your shoes. Just unsolicited attacks such as those I received from Celia. Best of luck to you Mandy. You are so young I hope your life is full of good things yet to come!

[denverbackchic]

I agree with you Kristy. I'm glad you had enough courage to speak up about it and post. I was thinking about it but chickened out. I'm always curious to know what is out there since I'm new to the forum even if it doesn't apply to my son's situation I see it as though I've learned something.

Thank you blackwidow! Thank you Kristy! From the bottom of my heart.

I was talking to my boyfriend and I told him that this site was making me into something dreadful that I am not! Ceila had no right to make false stabs at me...but I was no better than her posting back calling her "negative nancy"...we were both a bit childish...but I think what we can learn from this is this thread states the obvious...
This is a sad, frustrating illness we all have.

It is no wonder tensions run high on here. The Nikergen person was right...I was on here in Jan and got my nose so bloody the minute I mentioned "chiropractor" that I lost sleep and felt sick to my stomach over the mean things said to me! Then I realized...no one who ever accomplished anything in life did it the easy way. They all encountered scrutiny. All world leaders, scientists, and politicians are both loved and hated at the same time. Now I am not putting myself on FDR's platform...I am just saying that anything that is worth it is worth being brave for. I will continue to post my success despite the doubters. I think health care professionals of all kinds can agree that we want a safer, easier solution to this. Hopefully this may be it, only time will tell.

[denverbackchic]

Forgot to mention!

If any of you who have emailed me privately would like a copy of my xrays before and after (only 42/42 to 33/31 so far, but still kinda cool) just email me your fax number at katie_oconnell77@yahoo.com
Unfortunately tech genious was not one of the gifts I've been granted and I only have a paper printout of them! I would bug D. W be he is on the road at a seminar. Thanks!

Well it is 70 today in Denver so this chic is off for a run! I wish I could bring my cutie 4 leggers but they have kennel cough. It is SOOOOO sad! Any remedies from someone who has had experience with this are welcome! I've also attached their picture. CUTIE PIES!! My pride and joy. I work with 2 rescues here in denver so my life is always blessed with fur and drool.

[nikyergen]

Denverbackchic,
I didn't attack you and didn't call you names. I even double read my post to be sure I didn't call you a name. Nope, I sure didn't. Unfortunately, I knew you would attack back. I just mentioned you have been on before. I haven't said anything bad about you or your treatments this time and still won't. But, please do not attack me, as I was simply making a true statement. You will draw more attention with kindness than with being defensive. Maybe try a different route and things might improve for you and how people respond to you. You want me to be thoughtful about your feelings, you need to be just as thoughtful about mine. I haven't said anything bad about you this time.

[Jinseeker]

I don't get why you have to ask somebody to give out their fax number just so that person can have a look at your x-rays. Why don't you just put up the x-rays images as an attached image in this thread? Even more unbelievable is that you'd post a picture of your dogs which has nothing at all with our discussion. Based on many of your posts, i really doubt your credibility.

[Jacque's Mom]

A bit much now...

I generally stay out of these types of discussions but now it's getting a bit much. Jinseeker, did you not read that she mentioned she is not tech savvy and that's why she will fax her pictures. Also, so what if she posted a picture of her dogs! If it makes people smile when they see them go for it. If you're not interested, don't give her your number, but attacking her for that is just not right.

[SandyC]

Your right Jacques Mom. All of us on this board that have gone full circle with our scoli, including myself, have to learn to allow people to express their opinion.

I think that when we all started on our journey to "fix" our scoli we all tried differant things prior to surgery. We all have to learn, in our own time, that once we are adults and our bones are hard and set that push/pull/cast/brace etc just won't fix the problem. Everything is trial and error and for some it takes time before coming to the realization that an easy fix isn't in the cards.

We all have scoli, which is why we are all on this forum. We all have body image issues/pain issues and family issues because of scoli, I for one would like to raise a white flag and have a truce

[denverbackchic]

Sandy C and Jacque's Mom,
Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You know, when I was in my brace I was so picked on in school. My own friends turned against me. The nicknamed me "turtle" and tell popular boys in class that I was a closet lesbian because I never had a boyfriend and never went to dances. They told everyone my family was poor b/c I wore big baggy clothes that did not fit. I only wore them to hide. The obvious reason I was a target was I was a shy kid to begin with and the brace sure didn't help. The rumors and the cheap shots were so bad they crushed me. My mom dried tears nightly. Now that I am older and wiser I look back and realize they made me so much stronger. I grew up and into my body. And I actully did more than go to dances, I became a professional dancer- a cheerleader in the NFL! (the proudest day of my mom's life- she loves football)

I learned to be a fighter and perhaps that fighter does come out of me sometimes on this forum. (that and I am Italian-Irish Anyways, these women make me feel like I am that high school girl in a brace again. Their comments are mean, unsolicited and meant to do nothing but hurt the weaknesses they see in me. Being that some of them are surgeons, surgeon's wives and surgery candidates, and chiro is the less common less researched newer choice in care, I am an easy target for them. So easy they go so far as to attack my dogs for goodness sake! (did they not find them cute?) I thought we were on here to get to know each other and support each other. And if my dogs made someone smile besides me yesterday that is a good thing. When I signed up for this is was called a "support" site...these gals may not be supportive, but you sure are and thank you. The moderators correct anything from my mouth, but let the others talk freely but that is okay. It is okay b/c the people I have met on here who I email personally with are some of the best people ever! They have helped me learn and grow and given me jope. Yeah, I may like chiropratic and post my personal success so far, but don't doubt for a minute that I too am scared of this illness and my future. I don't want to be old at 40. I don't want to have pain all my life. I want to carry my future children with less risk. And if that happens for me, happens for anyone on here I say God Bless. The "mean girls" are harboring something upsetting them that I can't help them with. If attacking me makes them feel better then they get what they need from this site I guess.

Yes, I have yet to get the electronic pics from my doc...but 3 people already asked me for faxes and got them today (hopefully!). After her mean post why would I even want to share my hippa protected personal info with her? No way. I don't think for a minute she would believe it or try it so why open myself up. The last thing a post like that encourages me to do it display my body for her benefit and ridicule.

To my hopeful friends, as I have mentioned before I am starting a blog (once my 20 year old sister teaches me how) and that will have my electric copies and track my progress. If anyone wishes just follow that and see how my treatment works. I will explain the good, the bad and the ouchy. My next xray (6mo) is in August. I wish I had the blog done already, but I have worked 12 hour days since I have been home from mn and when I am not working I am training for my race or caring for my sick puppy bears (who are looking at me right now cuz they hate the computer- it takes away from them!) In any case, thanks again for your kind words of support. I knew I came here for a reason and it is people like you.

Have a blessed evening all, Katie

[CurvySAT05]

Katie, I am sorry for your loss and your near losses. One thing that is important to remember for everyone is that everyone has different experiences with different specialties. One may have a bad experience with an ortho that makes them look for alternatives, and one may have had a bad experience with an alternative and seek out an ortho. What works for one is not what is going to work for everyone. Remember that every scoli case is different. Each persons curves have their own personality. That is why there are multiple types of braces, and treatments available.
Medicine is never finished. Scientists and researchers are finding new drugs and treatments for many many conditions on a daily basis, and scoli is one of them.
This message is for everyone. Bracing and surgery could potentially save a life from progression of scoli, but so can an alternative treatment in the future. There is no way to determine who is right or wrong right now.
Remember the risks of surgery including infection, paralysis, and possibly even death. Also remember the risks of chiro to include nerve damage, damage to the spinal cord causing paralysis and possibly even death. There are benefits and consequences to both of them and you should be aware of that before treatment.
One mans trash is another mans treasure. Dont throw the baby out with the bath water.

[denverbackchic]

Mandy you are wise beyond your young 18 years. Thank you for your words of encouragement,and I am happy for you that you found your answer. All I have asked for on here since my very first post is to be heard and to discuss how this may be possible. I even asked people to not respond if they didn't like it or wish to try it.

So far I have had a LOT of success with well-trainined specific chiros (there is a big difference b/t them and any old chiro down the street)...so much success it shocks even me at times. I look and feel better that ever. If what works for me works for someone else on here who has never heard of it before then that is a pretty neat thing. All I wanted...considering I specifially chose the "non-surgical" forum to post in was to hear other people's "non-surgical" successes and share mine since it happens to be a very important part of my life. It would be a great support to me mentally to meet those people who also love chiropratic and share stories with them. I would never consider the surgery, so I learned a lesson from when I posted a month ago and I am NOT going to post on the "surgical" forums ever again. That is their life, and since I choose not to make the choice they did I am not going to go over there and have an opinion on it. However THIS forum says it is for people considering other options. I assume the best way to benefit from it is to keep it to non-surgical discussions. That would probably eliminate much of the fighting and debate. As I have learned I will NEVER convince some of them this stuff works, but who cares? B/c they will never convince me surgery works either. We must agree to disagree b/c as you said perfectly "we are all different." One mans answered prayer is another man's curse.

I started this thread for some much needed support for myself as my treatment will continue for months to come. Where I am in my chiro treatment is the eqivalent of a surgical patient having "set their date." It is a weird in between stage of question and doubt and you need all the support you can get and you need to celebrate the small successes. To get on here and say they hate chiros and would never go to a chiro cuz they are "quacks" is identical to me going over to the surgical forum and saying "I hate surgeons, they are quacks who steal your money and ruin your spine permanantly"...I don't think they would like to hear that considering many of them probably love their surgeon and trust him or her as much as I love and trust my Doctor of Chiropratic.

White flag is waiving. All I want on this particular thread is to discuss the benefits of alternative care for scoliosis. Pretty simple. It would help me a ton and from one scoli patient to many others, I think you can agree we all need that. Thank you Mandy.

[CurvySAT05]

Katie, I may not go as far as to say that you would never consider surgery, because no one can ever guarantee that. It may not be scoli related now, but maybe down the line you will have a herniated disc or something else that also might require treatment. I know that you have had a bad experience with surgeons, but dont limit your options. I know you are going for something that so far has worked but bodies also reach plateaus. I pray for you that this works. I also recommend that maybe you see an ortho and have your spine evaluated. Let them know the treatment that you are going through and use them as a tool to help document progression. You may start a new trend in the medical world of chiropractic help. I think that studies may go a bit smoother with surgeon involvement because of the worlds view of chiro's. (i hope that made some sense). Find a surgeon you trust and use them as a resource in your journey. You dont have to agree to surgery, but you will have someone there who you trust in the worst case scenario. Find someone who is reputable and one that you havent had a bad experience with. Just like not all chiros are bad (I used to think that but I love the chiro I go to now), not all surgeons are bad.
If you would like to PM me you can. I hope that your journey is successful. Good luck. I wish you the best.
Mandy

[denverbackchic]

Thanks Mandy! Not a bad idea. As I have mentioned before my boyfriend is a chiro and he does have a close personal relationship with a few orthos in town. He has cases that are beyond chiro care and he refers to them...they also have cases that still have hope for non-surgical and they refer to my boyfriend. My boyfriend has excellent results with herniated disks if the injury is still fairly new, but often people who don't know as much about backs as folks like us do will ignore the pain or just "struggle through it." (umm- my dad!) If they let the injury go it gets beyond what my boyfriend can help and he refers them for surgery. We had to do that with a good friend of mine a month ago. The synergy of a good ortho/chiro relationship free from ego and prejudice is just awesome. I guess scoliosis is more controversial b/c we are not always dealing with full grown adults who have injuries where it is a little more black and white. We are often dealing with young spines that besides a curve are otherwise healthy and free from herniation and injury...and that becomes more gray. Sometimes the best surgeons even debate on what degree is surgery needed. I know b/c when I was little I had 47 degree/45 degrees but had no pain or herniations- 1 doc told me to book the surgery and another ortho doc told me "take your brace off and go live your 17 year old life...if you need surgery when you are older so be it, but not now." (Dr. Gillespie at chilren's hosp in buffalo, to this day my parents want to kiss him.) Both were good and well-respected in their field so people could say they were both right. So, that is understandably where the debate comes in for surg and non-surg. One says give kids time to heal, grow and make changes...the other says operate before it gets worse. The sad part is in both cases they are right! It just depends upon the person in question. The orthos my boyfriend and I deal with don't do scoliosis surgery in particular, but they are just wonderful at what they do fix and I respect them for that. I think whenever folks debate on here we are debating the "extremes." The fact is there are chiros out there who say they can correct scoliosis and can't, and there are surgeons willing to operate on the tiniest of curves no matter the consequence. We should stay focused on the good on both side. The chiros that do get scoli results, and the orthos who suggest anything but surgery and only operate when totally necessary and have success with it.

So, you have had surgery and are still seeing a chiro and like it... I am curious- does he/she do upper cervical work on you? Any other therapies? has it done well for pain management? Maybe you have no pain in the first place. The reason I ask may sound silly. I met a girl in MN who worked at the mall (on her feet ALL day.) She is in her 30's and had a harrington rod in the 1990's I think was the date. She said for the past 2 years she has been in agony. She has a pain patch, pain killers, has tried cortinsone shots...and botox shots (I was surprised b/c I never heard of botox for anything but cosmetic.)..not a one of them has worked. I told her I see a chiro and they can still adust her neck, but to call first b/c I have no clue what rod patients have experienced with chiro post op. My boyfriend treats a few and just adjusts the neck. Dr. W said if he restores a cervical curve in rod patients they get awesome relief. Just curious if you had any words of encouragement as I would like to call this girl. She was just a precious little thing! SO nice. I would like to help her. You may PM me as I just realized I asked a ton of personal questions! Thanks Mandy!

[Cakedec]

Glad to hear chiros still adjust neck post-rod

Denverback chick,

I was glad to hear you say that chiros can still adjust the neck vertebrae after scoliosis rod surgery. I have 2 big kinks in my neck that will not be fixed if I have surgery for my double scoliosis (T65,L75) and was wondering if I would still be able to get chiropractor care for them. It is the only thing that has ever even helped the neck stiffness and pain since the md's say they can't see anything to fix in the neck and my fusion would be way below (at T4 down to L4). Even my physical therapist has said that people with rods have more problems in vertebrae above and below the fusion afterwards, which has made me wonder whether I even should have the surgery since most of my pain and problems are in the neck and down my arm rather than in my back.

If anyone else has any experience in this area, would like to hear from you. The chiro says my neck kinks look like from whiplash, but I always thought that they were compensatory curves from the lower scoliosis.

Deb

[denverbackchic]

Denverback chick,

The chiro says my neck kinks look like from whiplash, but I always thought that they were compensatory curves from the lower scoliosis.

Deb

I have had whiplash! OUCH! Do you have a lot of pain in the tiny muscles at the front of your neck? That is where whiplash affected me so if your flexors are what hurts and can see why he would say that. You can call my chiro office and get a referral if you want. Or you can go online and look for an "upper cervical" chiro in your area. Just be sure to ask around and get a referral. Make sure they have treated rod patients before. They specialize in ajusting nothing but the neck. Even on people w/out fusion. They say the atlas is what controls the rest...neck pain, headaches, etc. Those who see upper cerv chiros that I know of swear by them.

Perhaps you should private message Mandy as she seems to have had success and she has fusion. Best of luck I will hope for your feeling better!!

[Chayil]

Hi denverbackchic, I am so happy for you, I am glad that a chiropractor is helping you with your scoliosis and you are seeing significant changes. For me, it has not been that big of a help but i still see my chiropractor once every month. My spine has not gotten any worse but it is still not any better (there is still hope, i think lol). I would really like to know how things are going for you, so keep us posted. Best of luck!!!!!