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Thread: spinecor

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    776

    spinecor

    so, is there anybody on this forum who uses one of these, and can tell how comfortable (or not ) they are???

  2. #2
    Mary Lou Guest
    gerbo,

    I know there has been some discussion about this, so I suggest you do a search. Also, if I remember correctly, there has been more discussion about the SpineCor on the SpineKids website. Good luck.

    Mary Lou

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    877

    Smile spinecor

    Quote Originally Posted by gerbo
    so, is there anybody on this forum who uses one of these, and can tell how comfortable (or not ) they are???
    My 11-year old daughter, Nicole has had the spinecor brace for almost 2 months now. She wears it 22 hours a day. There is no discomfort except the tops of her legs sometimes has marks on them when she takes off the brace. I would be happy to answer any other questions you have.



    Melissa

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    776
    I am kind of convinced that there is good evidence (at least as good as the evidence re other forms of bracing) that this might provide an effective way of bracing

    What will stop us, if anything, is my daughter protesting and saying that it is less comfortable than her current hard brace, to wgich she is so used to now.

    Does your daughter feel the straps round her legs whilst wearing it, are all the other straps easy to fasten and do they stay in place? What about the bits round the pelvis, are they visible? comfortable? What does your daughter think.


    In a next post I'll print the reply I got from the manufacturer about the spinecor and its effectiveness, hopefully you'll find that of interest

    gerbo

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    877

    spinecor

    Hi,
    My daughter never wore another brace, so she has nothing to compare it to. She has never had any problems getting used to it. The straps are easy to fasten and she puts it on and takes it off all by herself. There are about a hundred different ways it can be worn, depending on the person's curve. So they make sure you understand exactly which strap goes where. The only complaint she ever has is that her thighs sometimes have marks on them from the thigh bands. She has been in the brace for 2 months and wears it religiously 22 hours a day. We don't know if it is working for her, yet because we will not go for her x-rays until Christmas week. What I like best about Spinecor is the philosophy that Movement is Life. Dance is her life and she wears her brace for ballet, tap, jazz and lyrical. The only time she will not wear it is when she is competing in dance or at her dance recitals. But all of that is in the Spring. Nicole has not had to buy any new clothes because even her blue jeans fit over her brace. Please let me know if I can help you in any other way. Good luck, Melissa

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    6,797
    Gerbo...

    I'm curious. What is your reason for switching to the Spinecor brace if your daughter is already in a brace? What type of a brace did she wear?

    Regards,
    Linda

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    776
    melissa, that is encouraging, thanks

    linda; I am not happy with current brace with is a tight (hand in glove) thermoplastic TLSO model, custom made from a plastercast, which, and that is my main issue, only provides limited correction (from 29>21 degree whilst wearing the brace) All the evidence seem to suggest that with such a limited correction the endresult is unlikely to be particularly good.

    Consultant we are using is unwilling to discus this or to consider other hard braces (like boston, in which additional correction after fitting is an option)

    I feel we need to at least try alternatives and I must say that both the evidence, but also the theory behind spinecor appears very convincing, specially where it tends to hold the initial correction acjieved after discontinuation, opposed to haed braces where the curve tends to revert back to the original state

    I am planning to give it a try, and see whether we can achieve greater in-brace correction then with the one we currently have. if so, we will continue, if not, we'll panic.

    till some extend we are fortunate that we can get the fitting done by the owner of the firm producing the spinecor, so we get that as good as it will get.

    I have some correspondence from him on my workcomputer, which i will publish in the next few days. Makes interesting reading

    still feels like a gamble, but so does continuing on urrent lines

    gerbo

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    776
    Letter written to Dr Rivard, "inventor" of spinecor

    [I]Dear Dr Rivard

    I hope you do not mind that I write directly to you.

    I live in the UK and unfortunately my
    daughter (now 11 years 10 months, no Menarche yet) was
    earlier last year diagnosed with a T12 25 degree scoliosis,
    progressing in some months to 29 degree. With a hard brace
    (febr 2005) we achieved a 25 % correction, (down to 21 degree
    in brace) and on review this month we seem to be stable, in
    that the curve is still 29 degree.

    I am concerned that with the current brace we are not
    achieving as much correction as we should/ could be getting,
    and as we are due a new brace anyway, I am reconsidering my
    options.

    I think that at least I need to "press" for better correction
    from our next hard brace, but having "looked" at the
    Spinecor, and reading the studies published on the
    Spinecorporation website I do wonder whether this is an
    option for us.

    Although the results as published seem impressive, i am
    worried that the concept doesn't appear to be having the
    wholehearted backing of the orthopaedic community and
    specifically that, as i understand it, The Nuffield Hospital
    Oxford pulled out of the joint study (with your own
    hospital), because they were not happy with the results. The
    other worry is the study which i saw, by dr Weiss, who
    questioned to effectiveness of the brace as well.

    Have you got any insight as to why use in Oxford and through
    Dr Weiss were not succesful, and are you able to reassure me?

    I understand that a further study by yourself will be
    published soon. Are you able to advice me when and where they
    will be published, and are you already able to give any
    outline of the results?

    I would be grateful for any advice you might be able to give
    to help to settle my anxieties. I am well aware that I cannot
    afford at this stage to make a wrong choice with regards to
    my daughter's treatment, as she will have to live with the
    consequences forever

    With regards

    GH


    and the reply from Andrew mills of the Spinecorporation



    Dear xx

    Your email has been forwarded on to Dr Rivard however; I can easily answer your questions. More reduction in a rigid brace will not necessarily make any significant difference to the outcome.
    Rigid bracing at best will prevent progression from the initial pre-treatment cobb angle, applying more force to give the illusion of more correction on an in brace x-ray may make you feel the treatment is better but that is not necessarily the case at all. There is some debate amongst practioners about the compromise between reduction of major curves, compensatory curves and balance, from my point of view all three should be considered and one not optimumized at the expense of the others.
    For 12 - 24 months post rigid brace treatment curves will tend increase until they stabilize out, generally close to where treatment started.

    At your daughter’s age the risk of progression is, as you know very high and it is possible you may yet see more progression despite bracing.
    SpineCor treatment will not perform miracles but offers the best possibly of achieving a final stable result post treatment with the lowest Cobb angle achievable in any particular case.
    In Montreal we now have long-term follow-up, 5 years, post bracing in a large proportion of the original 400 patient study group.
    Results of the latest follow-up, not yet, published show exceptional stability post treatment with overall better results than any conventional rigid brace treatment.
    With more than 5,000 patients treated worldwide now there is no question in our mind concerning the efficacy of SpineCor Treatment. There have of course been some failures, which basically stem from failures in training. Our training program has changed significantly in recent years to prevent future treatment centre failures.

    Dr Weiss, incidentally, treated a group of 20 patients with SpineCor braces on which he based his opinions. These treatments were carried without any training or following the SpineCor treatment protocols, not surprisingly the treatments failed.

    Nuffield had issues with funding the SpineCor trial as well as great difficulty in recruiting patients with a randomised protocol for treatment vs. non-treatment. Only 5 patients were treated in 18 months against a recruitment protocol of 20 patients in 12 months. The lack of funding, some training issues and any enthusiasm from the team involved resulted in them just giving up.

    In general there are huge problems to introduce SpineCor into the UK since orthotists who traditionally provide bracing treatments find SpineCor very challenging, added to this they are often under great pressure to see patients very quickly and simply do not have the time for SpineCor. Furthermore it needs to be understood that is a big learning curve with SpineCor and the skills required are very different to those for rigid bracing. For these reasons it is essential that trainees treat significant numbers of patients to develop their skills. The current SpineCor accreditation program demands a minimum of twenty patient treatments and 6 months experience before individuals are eligible for accreditation. In the UK there are few treatment centres that offer the opportunity to meet the training criteria in a reasonable period of time. A change in the method of treatment delivery is required for SpineCor to ever become mainstream in the UK.
    Personally I am working on ways of changing the way SpineCor is made available to the NHS but this is likely to be slow.
    The latest SpineCor treatment results have been submitted and accepted by the European Spine Journal but as yet we do not know when publication might be.

    I hope this information is useful to you.

    Kind regards

    Andrew J Mills MBAPO
    Managing Director/Orthotist

    The SpineCorporation Limited



    It is all a bit lengthy, but thought it makes for interesting reading
    Last edited by gerbo; 10-27-2013 at 05:23 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    877

    Spinecor

    Gerbo,
    Thanks for that information. I would be interested to know how big the curves were that were being treated. I am thrilled that your daughter and my daughter are the same age. I have been looking for girls her age who are wearing the spinecor so that she could have someone to talk to. Too bad we don't even live in the same country!!!!! Anyway, good luck with your decision. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
    Melissa (Nicole's Mom)










    me months to 29 degree. With a hard brace
    (febr 2005) we achieved a 25 % correction, (down to 21 degree
    in brace) and on review this month we seem to be stable, in
    that the curve is still 29 degree.

    I am concerned that with the current brace we are not
    achieving as much correction as we should/ could be getting,
    and as we are due a new brace anyway, I am reconsidering my
    options.

    I think that at least I need to "press" for better correction
    from our next hard brace, but having "looked" at the
    Spinecor, and reading the studies published on the
    Spinecorporation website I do wonder whether this is an
    option for us.

    Although the results as published seem impressive, i am
    worried that the concept doesn't appear to be having the
    wholehearted backing of the orthopaedic community and
    specifically that, as i understand it, The Nuffield Hospital
    Oxford pulled out of the joint study (with your own
    hospital), because they were not happy with the results. The
    other worry is the study which i saw, by dr Weiss, who
    questioned to effectiveness of the brace as well.

    Have you got any insight as to why use in Oxford and through
    Dr Weiss were not succesful, and are you able to reassure me?

    I understand that a further study by yourself will be
    published soon. Are you able to advice me when and where they
    will be published, and are you already able to give any
    outline of the results?

    I would be grateful for any advice you might be able to give
    to help to settle my anxieties. I am well aware that I cannot
    afford at this stage to make a wrong choice with regards to
    my daughter's treatment, as she will have to live with the
    consequences forever

    With regards

    Gerbo Huisman
    Lichfield, UK[/I]


    and the reply from Andrew mills of the Spinecorporation



    Dear Mr Huisman

    Your email has been forwarded on to Dr Rivard however; I can easily answer your questions. More reduction in a rigid brace will not necessarily make any significant difference to the outcome.
    Rigid bracing at best will prevent progression from the initial pre-treatment cobb angle, applying more force to give the illusion of more correction on an in brace x-ray may make you feel the treatment is better but that is not necessarily the case at all. There is some debate amongst practioners about the compromise between reduction of major curves, compensatory curves and balance, from my point of view all three should be considered and one not optimumized at the expense of the others.
    For 12 - 24 months post rigid brace treatment curves will tend increase until they stabilize out, generally close to where treatment started.

    At your daughter’s age the risk of progression is, as you know very high and it is possible you may yet see more progression despite bracing.
    SpineCor treatment will not perform miracles but offers the best possibly of achieving a final stable result post treatment with the lowest Cobb angle achievable in any particular case.
    In Montreal we now have long-term follow-up, 5 years, post bracing in a large proportion of the original 400 patient study group.
    Results of the latest follow-up, not yet, published show exceptional stability post treatment with overall better results than any conventional rigid brace treatment.
    With more than 5,000 patients treated worldwide now there is no question in our mind concerning the efficacy of SpineCor Treatment. There have of course been some failures, which basically stem from failures in training. Our training program has changed significantly in recent years to prevent future treatment centre failures.

    Dr Weiss, incidentally, treated a group of 20 patients with SpineCor braces on which he based his opinions. These treatments were carried without any training or following the SpineCor treatment protocols, not surprisingly the treatments failed.

    Nuffield had issues with funding the SpineCor trial as well as great difficulty in recruiting patients with a randomised protocol for treatment vs. non-treatment. Only 5 patients were treated in 18 months against a recruitment protocol of 20 patients in 12 months. The lack of funding, some training issues and any enthusiasm from the team involved resulted in them just giving up.

    In general there are huge problems to introduce SpineCor into the UK since orthotists who traditionally provide bracing treatments find SpineCor very challenging, added to this they are often under great pressure to see patients very quickly and simply do not have the time for SpineCor. Furthermore it needs to be understood that is a big learning curve with SpineCor and the skills required are very different to those for rigid bracing. For these reasons it is essential that trainees treat significant numbers of patients to develop their skills. The current SpineCor accreditation program demands a minimum of twenty patient treatments and 6 months experience before individuals are eligible for accreditation. In the UK there are few treatment centres that offer the opportunity to meet the training criteria in a reasonable period of time. A change in the method of treatment delivery is required for SpineCor to ever become mainstream in the UK.
    Personally I am working on ways of changing the way SpineCor is made available to the NHS but this is likely to be slow.
    The latest SpineCor treatment results have been submitted and accepted by the European Spine Journal but as yet we do not know when publication might be.

    I hope this information is useful to you.

    Kind regards

    Andrew J Mills MBAPO
    Managing Director/Orthotist

    The SpineCorporation Limited



    It is all a bit lengthy, but thought it makes for interesting reading[/QUOTE]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    776
    I am thrilled that your daughter and my daughter are the same age.


    and it doesn't stop there, my daughter, l, is a very keen (and good) dancer, specially her ballet is beautiful, tap is more a "if i have to do it I'll do it" Keeping her dancing and moving is clearly a high priority

    I'll keep you informed and if she ends up with a spinecor, we can let them exchange email adresses so they can compare notes (if they want to)

    all best wishes

    gerbo
    Last edited by gerbo; 03-23-2012 at 08:54 AM. Reason: daughter request

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    877

    spinecor

    Gerbo,
    How long ago was Lisanna diagnosed? Nicole was just diagnosed 3 months ago. I assume she takes her hard brace off when she dances. Nicole dances 5 days a week and she dances with her brace on. Ballet is supposed to be excellent for scoliosis. Nicole takes ballet twice a week, but her passion is tap!!!! I am curious to know whether they give your daughter specific exercises and/or therapy to do along with the spinecor brace (if she gets the brace). Nicole goes for p.t. at the chiro's and also has specific exercises to do daily at home. Keep in touch, Melissa

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    776
    curve was first noticed about 2 years ago (seemed minimal, > no action), first x rayed in june 2004, and because of 5 degree progression in 11/04 it was decided to brace her, which started from feb 2005. Hard brace reduced curve from 29 to 21 degree (in brace). Check up out of brace this month showed kind of stable (??) curve at 29 degree still.

    l dances about 2 hours every day, and yes, isn't wearing hard brace during this time

    she wasn't given any exercises at all as orthopedics in UK do not beleive it makes any difference or serves any purpose (!!!!), but we are working with physion on neuromuscular control, strengthening of trunk muscles, we do torsorotation exercises and other resistance work at gym, and she swims and she dances.

    Did your daughter get a out of brace and inbrace xray on the day spinecor was fitted?, how much reduction was achieved? Did you try to find out whether your chiro (if he fitted spinecor) received the proper training by spinecorporation?

    best wishes

    gerbo
    Last edited by gerbo; 03-23-2012 at 08:55 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    877

    Smile Spinecor brace

    Dr. Deutchman is the one who fitted Nicole and he is considered to be one of the best in this country. People travel from all over to get fitted by him because of his expertise. He has an office in N.Y. city which is only a one and a half hour trip by train for us.
    Dr. Deutchman was both surprised and pleased when we did the x-ray in Nicole's brace. Unlike the hard brace, you don't achieve anything near a 50% reduction in the brace. It usually only shows about a five degree reduction, I think. However, Nicole went down something like 14 degrees in the brace. I don't know if that means anything as far as likelihood for success. We will not know if it is working until at least Christmas when we get the x-rays without the brace.
    In addition to 10 hours of dance per week, Nicole does specific stretches on a ball and standing. She also is working on a balance board. She does eye exercises, gets electric stim and gets some gentle massage and manipulation from the chiro. She wears her brace 22 hours a day. We are doing everything possible to try to halt this curve. Only time will tell. Best of luck with your decision. Melissa

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    776
    Quote Originally Posted by MATJESNIC
    It usually only shows about a five degree reduction, I think. However, Nicole went down something like 14 degrees in the brace. Melissa
    If you go to the website at www.spinecorporation.com you'll find treatment overviews/ papers giving a clear indication what to expect

    as i understand it, you expect progressive correction over first 6 months, and the correction (in brace) after 4-6 months is the correction you are hopefully going to keep "forever", contrary to the longterm correction following a hard brace, which tend to revert back to the original angle

    well this is the theory, and we all hope and pray it will work that way for our children

    gerbo

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    776
    Quote Originally Posted by MATJESNIC
    Dr. Deutchman is the one who fitted Nicole
    is he a medical doctor or a chiropedist?

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