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Thread: Fusion can decrease disc degeneration

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    This is the first I have seen of someone fitting an equation for progression given a >30* at skeletal maturity. It's like they are saying most curves >30* will progress and they will progress within that rate range. I did not realize that most curves say in the 30*s could be expected to progress.
    Thirty degrees has been one of the most oft quoted numbers since Weinstein's study in the 80's. Unfortunately, Weinstein grouped patients with 30 to 59 degree curves together, so it's hard to know what that really means. I think most adult scoliosis specialists would say it should probably more like 50 degrees. I don't know that there's anything more modern published.

    Weinstein Progression Chart
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

  2. #17
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    Its been hard to post and watch the Olympics at the same time!

    On the subject of disc degeneration, after digging..... I found this very informative video by Dr Janssen.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPypQdjU5sY

    At 10:00 he discusses scoliosis patients....Its funny the look on his face as he mentions that we "drive on the rims"

    I've been known to throw a few sparks in my day....(smiley face)

    Lots of artificial disc info here.....check out the "stacked artificial discs" Wow!

    Please remember that as scoliosis patients, when we stroll by the bakery and look at the goodies, we have to say no. But its ok to look.....(Cheesecake and artifical discs)


    Ed
    Last edited by titaniumed; 02-14-2018 at 12:01 AM.
    49 yr old male, now 59, the new 55...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine View Post
    Thirty degrees has been one of the most oft quoted numbers since Weinstein's study in the 80's. Unfortunately, Weinstein grouped patients with 30 to 59 degree curves together, so it's hard to know what that really means. I think most adult scoliosis specialists would say it should probably more like 50 degrees. I don't know that there's anything more modern published.

    Weinstein Progression Chart
    Thanks for this reminder. I forgot about this paper. I knew that <30 degrees at maturity was viewed as some threshold for protection against progression to surgery territory. I had not seen a rate of progression stated so plainly as a reasonable assumption before.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    please remember that as scoliosis patients, when we stroll by the bakery and look at the goodies, we have to say no. But its ok to look.....(cheesecake and artifical discs)


    ed
    lol!

    .

    .
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Thanks for this reminder. I forgot about this paper. I knew that <30 degrees at maturity was viewed as some threshold for protection against progression to surgery territory. I had not seen a rate of progression stated so plainly as a reasonable assumption before.
    But we can if we are scoliosis patients without having had surgery?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by burdle View Post
    But we can if we are scoliosis patients without having had surgery?
    Burdle I don't understand your comment. Can do what?
    Last edited by Pooka1; 02-14-2018 at 08:17 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Burdle I don't understand your comment. Can do what?
    It was a reply to Ed's comment below. SO:

    On the subject of disc degeneration, after digging..... I found this very informative video by Dr Janssen.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPypQdjU5sY

    At 10:00 he discusses scoliosis patients....Its funny the look on his face as he mentions that we "drive on the rims"

    I've been known to throw a few sparks in my day....(smiley face)

    Lots of artificial disc info here.....check out the "stacked artificial discs" Wow!

    Please remember that as scoliosis patients, when we stroll by the bakery and look at the goodies, we have to say no. But its ok to look.....(Cheesecake and artifical discs)

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    reno,nevada
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    3,709
    I believe that there has only been one member (From Australia) who has had an artificial disc (Pro disc?) installed under a fusion mass....I am guessing that most scoliosis surgeons are not keen on this incredible balancing act.

    We have to face it, our degenerative stats are not the greatest....perhaps a bit disheartening.

    It seems that stem cells are out in this hostile collagen desert, a place that dries up with fissures and such. Dr Eyre (Biochemist) discusses some of the issues. You guys might find this interesting....

    Disc Degeneration Why does it occur?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX5U4hyCYOc

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 59, the new 55...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  9. #24
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    Sep 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Well if the study design was whack, I don't think it would have been published. .

    http://edzardernst.com/2016/03/mind-...ce-over-truth/

  10. #25
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    Yes bad papers get through, even in top journals. My statement was wishful.

    A majority of published research results are probably false and there is retractionwatch that tries to keep track of withdrawn published papers.

    That said, I am not sure I understand the criticism. I have to read the paper if i can get it. If the control group is carrying on with their usual treatment, I am not sure why that baseline should not be carried thru into the treatment groups. The treatments may only work if that baseline is there and they would never know that if there was no baseline. Maybe I am not following. This is not my field.

    The crucial flaw of the “A+B versus B” design is that it fails to account for non-specific effects. If the patients in the experimental group experience better outcomes than the control group, this difference could well be due to effects that are unrelated to the experimental treatment.
    I think medical studies with human subjects are very challenging and this will never be like studies in other fields.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 02-15-2018 at 05:54 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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