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Thread: Scoliosis and Link to Vaccine

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    As I mentioned, a recent measles outbreak occurred in part in adults vaccinated as kids. If that continues, I think the CDC will recommend boosters.

    You and the anti-vaccine movement are no different than any other hysterical anti-factual movement like the creationists or the flat-earthers. It is easy for lay people to completely misunderstand the science and data and facts. It is on such a large scale that it is exhausting correcting all the nonsense. You are fooling yourself if you wander too far off the CDC site or too far away from logic. You are entitled to your own opinions. You are NOT entitled to your own facts. Everything you have written is opinion that is counterfactual.
    You might be correct IF there were ONLY lay people, as you say in this anti-vaccine movement.....I am in the Vaccine Choice movement.......Your child, your choice....But,....it is NOT only lay people.....Doctors and scientists and immunologists are in this "movement"......people that study the science and have seen with their own eyes healthy children regress and/or become sick.....The Dtap vaccine insert actually lists blood disorders, gastro-intestinal disorders, cardiac disorders as adverse reactions reported after post marketing.....meaning after the product was on the market.....When men and women who are in the field and have been for decades start to see something is not right and question it,.....well, I am not going to say they are wrong,.........But, do not say it is all people that are not docs or scientists raising the warning sign.....there are plenty of them......

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nim View Post
    You might be correct IF there were ONLY lay people, as you say in this anti-vaccine movement.....I am in the Vaccine Choice movement.......Your child, your choice....But,....it is NOT only lay people.....Doctors and scientists and immunologists are in this "movement"......people that study the science and have seen with their own eyes healthy children regress and/or become sick.....The Dtap vaccine insert actually lists blood disorders, gastro-intestinal disorders, cardiac disorders as adverse reactions reported after post marketing.....meaning after the product was on the market.....When men and women who are in the field and have been for decades start to see something is not right and question it,.....well, I am not going to say they are wrong,.........But, do not say it is all people that are not docs or scientists raising the warning sign.....there are plenty of them......
    Creationists also claim to have "scientists". Creationism has been proven to be false. In most cases these people have fake degrees. A few have actual degrees and are technically scientists but are not behaving like scientists because they don't follow the evidence.

    Your expert has his own page on Quackwatch. That is something. This goes to show that people can get medical degrees and science degrees and ignore the basic tenets of intellectual honesty. Not news.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 01-20-2018 at 11:47 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nim View Post
    I am in the Vaccine Choice movement
    "n other words you are in the "Selfish Herd Immunity Movement".
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    "n other words you are in the "Selfish Herd Immunity Movement".
    Except there is no such thing as "herd immunity". Again, if you feel guarding.... (and you are not) because fully vaxxed kids get measles and everything else,.......(that's why there have been outbreaks of the feared measles on college campusus),.... your child from what are common childhood viruses, is worth putting aluminum, polysorbate 80, and aborted fetal cell lines into them,....fine,...do it,.....but, do not demand others are injected. Your child, your choice,.....My child, my choice........

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Creationists also claim to have "scientists". Creationism has been proven to be false. In most cases these people have fake degrees. A few have actual degrees and are technically scientists but are not behaving like scientists because they don't follow the evidence.

    Your expert has his own page on Quackwatch. That is something. This goes to show that people can get medical degrees and science degrees and ignore the basic tenets of intellectual honesty. Not news.

    So, I just went over to visit "Quack Watch". ANYTHING or ANYONE that presents a view that is in ANYWAY against vaccines or the substances in them, or dares question them,....OR dare suggest ANYTHING NATURAL, is labeled a QUACK! There is nothing more to say in this thread for me,......I guess I am just NOT a sheeple! And that's all there is to it!

    If anyone is out there and has been following, I think you will agree, as I do, that it has been interesting,...we did manage to remain cilvil, yet, spirited
    .....and all I really wanted to do, was to see if anyone else had read or found anything on the polio vaccine and asymetry of the spine and face.....

    But, if anyone IS interested in finding out a bit about the rest of the story, go to the sites: Vac Truth, NVIC, and Learn the Risk. Google Dr. Suzanne Humphries, she has some lectures on You Tube,....or get her book, "Dissolving Illusions".......Google: Girls injured by the Garasil vaccine,......keep reading and researching, until you feel sure and confident in your decision......Your child, your choice!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nim View Post
    Except there is no such thing as "herd immunity".
    Herd immunity redirects to here... https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/terms/g...l#commimmunity

    Community immunity: A situation in which a sufficient proportion of a population is immune to an infectious disease (through vaccination and/or prior illness) to make its spread from person to person unlikely. Even individuals not vaccinated (such as newborns and those with chronic illnesses) are offered some protection because the disease has little opportunity to spread within the community. Also known as herd immunity.
    It's a question of numbers. You state vaccinated people get these diseases. But the relevant fact is not that it happens but if it happens at any frequency. There si no question more people, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, would get these preventable diseases if less people are vaccinated. That's why opting out is selfish and reaping benefits from most of the others who are vaccinated.

    https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/body-...ccine-refusals

    How much does vaccine refusal reduce the effectiveness of vaccinations in the community, and how much does this have the potential to harm even people who get vaccinated?
    Davis: To understand the impact of vaccine refusal, we need to remind ourselves how vaccines help prevent disease.

    Vaccination protects against illnesses in two main ways. First, the person being vaccinated is protected, because the vaccine stimulates his or her immune system to recognize the harmful bacteria or virus in the future and provide a protective response. This is the process of being “immunized.” Vaccines are developed to provide the benefits of immunization as effectively as possible to all people who receive them, while producing as few side effects as possible. However, just as people vary in the benefits they get from prescription medicines, people also are different in their immunity from vaccination. Many people get maximum benefit while some not as much. In addition, protection from vaccination can decrease over time. Doctors call this “waning immunity.”

    That’s what makes herd immunity — the second form of protection from vaccines — so important. Just as a herd of animals will form a protective circle around its most vulnerable members, herd immunity refers to how well immunized people in a community protect the less- or nonimmunized people in that same community. This is an extremely important benefit of vaccination programs, because not everyone can receive vaccines, for medical reasons, and because some people who have been vaccinated will not fully respond. When it comes to battling diseases, humans need the protection of herds, too.
    Also this from the same link...

    The U.S. experienced a record 667 measles cases from 27 states in 2014 that included a multi-state outbreak traced to Disneyland — the greatest number of cases since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention declared the disease eradicated in 2000.

    The study’s conclusion: Vaccine refusals are to blame.
    You talk about other compounds in vaccines. You don't seem to be aware that we have decades of data in some cases on these compounds and that some of these compounds help the vaccine work. You can't just read some multi-syllabic chemical compounds name and assume from that that it must be harmful. Only data matters. Hysterics are not allowed. This isn't a game. A five minute google search by a lay person is NOT the equivalent of years of published scientific research. The emotions of a lay person are not the equivalent of scientific evidence. Epidemiology is a real subject. Reasonable people can disagree about some things but NOT about others. The earth is round (actually an oblate spheroid) not flat, the earth is ~4.55 billion years old not 6,000 years old, and vaccination has been a huge win for humanity not some evil plot for doctors to make money off making kids sick.

    I mean do you really believe all these doctors who vaccine are either too dumb to realize they are harming kids or too evil to stop harming kids for money? Which is it? One or the other.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...adjuvants.html
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nim View Post
    Except there is no such thing as "herd immunity".
    Evidence for herd immunity in specific diseases.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171704/

    Abstract
    Vaccination ideally protects susceptible populations at high risk for complications of the infection. However, vaccines for these subgroups do not always provide sufficient effectiveness. The herd effect or herd immunity is an attractive way to extend vaccine benefits beyond the directly targeted population. It refers to the indirect protection of unvaccinated persons, whereby an increase in the prevalence of immunity by the vaccine prevents circulation of infectious agents in susceptible populations. The herd effect has had a major impact in the eradication of smallpox, has reduced transmission of pertussis, and protects against influenza and pneumococcal disease. A high uptake of vaccines is generally needed for success. In this paper we aim to provide an update review on the herd effect, focusing on the clinical benefit, by reviewing data for specific vaccines.
    ----------------------------

    https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/7/911/299077

    EPIDEMIOLOGIC PERSPECTIVE
    Many examples of herd immunity have been described, illustrating the importance of indirect protection for predicting the short- and long-term impact of vaccination programs, for justifying them economically, and for understanding the nature of the immunity induced by various vaccines.

    Among the classic examples was the recognition that periodic epidemics of ubiquitous childhood infections such as measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, chickenpox, and polio, arose because of the accrual of a critical number of susceptible individuals in populations and that epidemics could be delayed or averted by maintaining numbers of susceptible individuals below this critical density (ie, by maintaining the proportion immune above some threshold) [15, 16].

    Impressive examples of indirect protection have been observed after the introduction of conjugate vaccines against pneumococcal and Haemophilus infections. Reductions in disease incidence among cohorts too old to have been vaccinated have been responsible for one- to two-thirds of the total disease reduction attributable to these vaccines in some populations. These are due to the ability of conjugate vaccines to protect vaccinees not only against disease but also against nasal carriage, and hence infectiousness [7].
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #68
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    Nim, community ("herd") immunity is an actual phenomenon that was been demonstrated through evidence. You have denied it exists several times now. I am sorry to say that denying this is as irrational as denying the earth is round. If you think it doesn't exists then you have to pony up studies that refute that it does exist. You can't just emotionally deny it.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 01-20-2018 at 04:22 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  9. #69
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    What happens when you are bit by an animal? Do you assume it wasn't rabid and refuse the rabies vaccination?

    What happens when you are bit by a rabid animal? (You know 100% that it has rabies, You know 100% it will kill you). Do you then accept the vaccination because you are pro choice?

    Is there a specific selection of vaccinations that vaccination choice people pick? If so, how would this selection process be done? Should I refuse a vaccination even if I do have 6% aluminum in my hardware? The alloy is TI6AL7NB
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ti-6Al-7Nb

    And if you do refuse "any" particular vaccination, do you have the right to have rabies shots to save your life?

    The creation by Congress of the no fault vaccination court was a good thing. Would it be fair to have a specific court set up for people affected by non-vaccinated people? They could set that up no-fault also...


    Ed
    Last edited by titaniumed; 01-21-2018 at 01:44 PM.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nim View Post
    So, getting tired of always seeing idiopathic scoliosis, and know there MUST be a CAUSE for this, I started researching,.........and it seems there is a link between the polio vaccine,......most babies get this, and maybe more than one dose. And there have been studies done that show a link.......So,.....there you go......Anyone interested,....just google Scoliosis and the link to the Polio vaccine.....a bunch of sites will come up..........
    I rather have scoliosis than polio.

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