Scoliosis and Link to Vaccine

[Pooka1]

I don't understand what you are saying with Dr. Mendelsohn's book and the relationship to this.....Mendelsohn had all the education and experience and degrees he needed to write the books he did. They were not difficult to understand. You are saying, though people are intelligent, they are not smart enough to be able to do research correctly? I do not buy that,...unless their IQ is fairly low.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield got caught involved in fraudulent activities and other misconduct associated with in his studies that he said showed vaccines were causing autism and lost his license.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Also I think you are mixing up intelligence and knowledge. Einstein was way more intelligent than me but I know way more about scoliosis than he did. So despite his intelligence I have more knowledge. The Vienna Report web site demonstrates this problem. That woman is probably smart but she has no grasp of the scientific facts nor does she have any training to tell good from bad work. And it shows.

The PhD trains people on how to do research and basically how not to fool yourself or others. Without that training we have solid nonsense like the Vienna Report. She is fooling herself and others like yourself. Honest people trained in research do not agree with Wakefield or other conspiracy theorists.

Bottom line is everyone is free to believe and do what they want on this issue of medicine and the medical profession. I think modern medicine shines in the field of trauma,.....they can patch you up after a dibilitating car accident like nobody's business, and can have an asthmatic breathing like a champ with steroids, they can substantially reduce pain or make it disappear completely, if need be, and other modalities like these....all good and wonderful,......is gets more murky when the cure or prevention of an illness or disease will stop the money wheel or slow it down substantially.

No everyone is not free to be selfish and benefit from herd immunity. The only reason people can even try this is because most other kids are vaccinated.

But, I do not believe or think Dr. Robert Mendelsohn was irresponsible for writing his books,....I think he opened eyes,....and there are many, many doctors and scientists and researchers for that matter that are on the same page he was,......people that know much, much more about all these issues than I do,.....So, common sense tells me there is truth in it.......I like to look at ALL the pieces of a puzzle,.....stand back,....take them all in,....and then make my decision on a medical issue,......Usually, when I do that,....it becomes perfectly clear what to do,......or not do.......

You also probably don't believe Wakefield did anything wrong when we know he did. Maybe Mendelsohn will loss his medical credentials like Wakefield. He is either mistaken or lying. You pick which. There is no third option.

Look I know it is hard for lay people to wade through this material. But if you don't have training to vet it then you need to rely on intellectually honest experts like those at the CDC.

[titaniumed]

The book destroys faith in the medical system.....which is a huge negative, but it does offer a few positives.

I cant submit any posts right now as I am battling a norovirus right now.....

Anyone remember the Andromeda Strain? Its kinda like that out here....I guess I will start burning my clothes soon.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066769/

Ed

[Pooka1]

The book destroys faith in the medical system.....which is a huge negative, but it does offer a few positives.

I cant submit any posts right now as I am battling a norovirus right now.....

Anyone remember the Andromeda Strain? Its kinda like that out here....I guess I will start burning my clothes soon.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066769/

Ed

Ed that is terrible! Take care of yourself.

Medicine isn't perfect but it is still the best game in town. There is simply nothing else that can substitute.

[Nim]

Dr. Andrew Wakefield got caught involved in fraudulent activities and other misconduct associated with in his studies that he said showed vaccines were causing autism and lost his license.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Also I think you are mixing up intelligence and knowledge. Einstein was way more intelligent than me but I know way more about scoliosis than he did. So despite his intelligence I have more knowledge. The Vienna Report web site demonstrates this problem. That woman is probably smart but she has no grasp of the scientific facts nor does she have any training to tell good from bad work. And it shows.

The PhD trains people on how to do research and basically how not to fool yourself or others. Without that training we have solid nonsense like the Vienna Report. She is fooling herself and others like yourself. Honest people trained in research do not agree with Wakefield or other conspiracy theorists.



No everyone is not free to be selfish and benefit from herd immunity. The only reason people can even try this is because most other kids are vaccinated.



You also probably don't believe Wakefield did anything wrong when we know he did. Maybe Mendelsohn will loss his medical credentials like Wakefield. He is either mistaken or lying. You pick which. There is no third option.

Look I know it is hard for lay people to wade through this material. But if you don't have training to vet it then you need to rely on intellectually honest experts like those at the CDC.

OKay,......So, Andrew Wakefield has been vindicated. There is a Mr. Thompson, he worked at the CDC, and he came forward....whistleblower and admitted the CDC did NOT report the correct date for the autism MMR link. There is a video...."Vaxxed", you may find interesting.....It was actually a movie.....and it has NOT been retracted by the CDC,.....you MAY be able to view it through You Tube,....It is clear you do not know the "rest of the story",.....you owe it to yourself to do that. The Vienna Report is not the only study on this......you can put "polio vaccine as a cause of facial, spine, and eye asymmetry", and other studies will come up......

Actually, here is no such thing as "herd immunity",.....but that discussion is for another day.....It is a FACT that fully vaccinated children come down with measles, mumps, and whooping cough......they do NOT get it from a healthy unvaccinated child,.........Many get it from a recently vaccinated child, or adult, that is "shedding" the vaccine. And being the innoculation is not very effective, and vaccination can mess with the immune system,....... bingo.....

Listen,.....I cannot tell anyone what causes scoliosis, but,.... I would tell them to follow their heart, gut, and mama instinct,.....and to read and research when it comes to vaccines and shots......And NOT just "studies done by the CDC .....(they hold patents on some vaccines),... and big medical hospitals that are all funded by the pharmaceuticals.

We know for a FACT "vaccine court" has paid billions of dollars to the families of vaccine damaged children. We know for a fact cancer is the leading cause of disease death of those under 19 years of age.....we know cancer can be caused by environmental toxins.....just what is in vaccines......But, you have to do your own search and come up with your own conclusion.....Go to the site "Learn the Risk",.....and "Vaccine Truth", ....and NVIC.....google: Andrew Moulden,....watch "Trace Amounts, and "Vaxxed"......For me,.....being an educator,....yes,....I WANT to read and research and hear ALL the things out there.....but, I am very open minded and curious by nature.....

[Pooka1]

OKay,......So, Andrew Wakefield has been vindicated....

Are you as sure this is correct as you are sure the rest of what you wrote is correct?

If I can show you he has not been vindicated in any regard will you open your mind to the fact that you are reading and believing false information?

The sites you post are even more counterfactual than Fox News and that is saying something.

[Nim]

Are you as sure this is correct as you are sure the rest of what you wrote is correct?

If I can show you he has not been vindicated in any regard will you open your mind to the fact that you are reading and believing false information?

The sites you post are even more counterfactual than Fox News and that is saying something.

It IS a fact that mucho money has been paid to families whose children have been damaged or died from vaccines....Yes, THAT is a FACT. If you do not want to hear this or research it for yourself, which is super easy to do, then don't,...that is your decision. It is also a FACT that today's children get way, way more than I did and all my friends did when we were children....I had 2 doses....today's kids may get 6 doses in one visit......mmr is 3 doses,....Tdap is 3 doses....that is 6.......

I started this thread with saying I found an article on the internet that said there MAY be a link between the polio vaccine and scoliosis,.........I do not know that there is......If people want to delve into that and explore it more, they can,......if not,....don't. But, I do know a vaccine insert lists several adverse reactions that can happen to a child.....most people never even know the ingredients of what is going into their child.......

I have listed several videos, books, and web sites anyone coming across this thread can access and read or listen to,.....totally up to them, if they find it interesting, they can do that,...if not,...don't,...........Mothers listened to their doctor's when told Thalidomide was perfectly safe to take during pregnancy for morning sickness......And we know that story....... babies were born without arms, hands, or legs......And supposedly there were "scientific" studies that said this was a safe drug.......But,...it wasn't.......But, I did not make my original post to debate vaccines......So, nothing more,.....I just thought what I came across was interesting, and there may be members of this forum that would be interested in this, as I was......that's all!

[Pooka1]

I started this thread with saying I found an article on the internet that said there MAY be a link between the polio vaccine and scoliosis,.

There may be invisible purple wombats on the far side of Pluto who are controlling the US economy.

There is as much evidence for that as for a link between the polio vaccine and scoliosis.

Your statement that Wakefield was vindicated is proof that you or your sources are making up things that are not facts and have no evidence.

Ask yourself why only a tiny fraction of people have any bad reaction to vaccines. Doesn't it seem likely that those are the people who were somehow compromised and that the vaccine ON TOP OF THAT may (or may not) have caused them problems?

You do no want to live in a world where nobody vaccinates. You think you do because you are not able to tell actual facts from solid nonsense. The link between the MMR vaccine and autism has been shown to be imaginary. The link between the polio vaccine and scoliosis has no evidence at all to even investigate as far as I know.

The undermining of science education has real world consequences. The chickens are coming home to roost.

[Nim]

There may be invisible purple wombats on the far side of Pluto who are controlling the US economy.

There is as much evidence for that as for a link between the polio vaccine and scoliosis.

Your statement that Wakefield was vindicated is proof that you or your sources are making up things that are not facts and have no evidence.

Ask yourself why only a tiny fraction of people have any bad reaction to vaccines. Doesn't it seem likely that those are the people who were somehow compromised and that the vaccine ON TOP OF THAT may (or may not) have caused them problems?

You do no want to live in a world where nobody vaccinates. You think you do because you are not able to tell actual facts from solid nonsense. The link between the MMR vaccine and autism has been shown to be imaginary. The link between the polio vaccine and scoliosis has no evidence at all to even investigate as far as I know.

The undermining of science education has real world consequences. The chickens are coming home to roost.

Well, the moms that had healthy toddlers that were meeting and exceeding milestones in their growth, had shots, then high fevers, crying, and then saw a regression did not imagine it......And they know the vaccines caused their child's autism......the "vaccine court" has paid billions out to families with vaccine damaged children.....I don't know what more proof you need that vaccines CAN and DO injure. To think they never have makes no sense. And there is no sense discussing this....you do not seem open to any kind of thought that dares question vaccines.......In my other posts, I think, I left names of videos, books, etc, you can explore, but, I doublt you will,....and that is fine.......The thing that is crazy to me, is that, ANY doctor or scientist, no matter how experienced, how knowledgable, how well respected, or how rock solid his or her credentials,.........if they start saying vaccines may be causeing some or much of the sickness we are seeing, ....they are suddenly quacks, crazy, stupid, and idiotic,.........Sad,.......but, I think it is very difficult to think tht what ails our children, we may actually have helped cause.......

[Marianne]

The book destroys faith in the medical system.....which is a huge negative, but it does offer a few positives.

I cant submit any posts right now as I am battling a norovirus right now.....

Anyone remember the Andromeda Strain? Its kinda like that out here....I guess I will start burning my clothes soon.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066769/

Ed

Hope you feel better soon Ed 🤒

[LindaRacine]

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/...s-fact-fiction

"The vaccine court's data show that bona fide vaccine injuries are rare. For every million vaccine doses eligible for compensation that were distributed in the decade beginning in 2006, the court compensated one injury victim. Depending on the gravity of the disease in question, receiving a vaccine is orders of magnitude less dangerous than staying unvaccinated. The tetanus vaccine that Durant received causes a life-threatening allergic reaction in at most 0.0006% of people who get the shot. The U.S. case fatality rate from tetanus, by contrast, is 13.2%.

"One injury from vaccines is one too many, but it is also important to keep perspective," says Sarah Atanasoff, a physician at the VICP in Rockville, Maryland. "The benefits of vaccination to the individual, the local community, and the nation as a whole far outweigh the risks.""

[titaniumed]

Thanks Sharon and Marianne

Its been a battle with dizziness and fatigue......been sleeping quite a bit.

I see that the vaccine court was setup because of all the litigation, and vaccine manufacturing companies essentially pulling the plug, folding the hand, leaving just one.....(which would be a disaster) The court was set up with no jury and they do make awards. Its a no fault system, with no blame. It cant be controlled.....as with many things involving medical science. Sometimes, earthquakes happen, there is nobody to blame.

I don't blame anyone for my scoliosis.....and with all the waivers we have to sign for surgery, I still wouldn't sue my surgeon since the good intent and integrity is sound. This quality is pronounced or unique in doctors that specialize, their main goal is not financially driven. Its about helping people. My goddaughter will be a pediatric trauma surgeon someday after around 20 years minimum of medical training. She will have more training than my scoliosis surgeon.....Let's not talk about her school debt, that could cause a heart attack. (mine)

Back on the polio subject, FDR founded the March of Dimes back in the 30's for polio. All he ever wanted was to find a cure for this disease.....Whats ironic is that the experts are now thinking that he had Guillain Barre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankl...alytic_illness

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilla...C3%A9_syndrome

Ok, one last Roosevelt tidbit. It was one of the Roosevelt's that donated the seed money for the founding of Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC around the time of the Civil War. Many members here have had their scoliosis surgeries at HSS. I don't have a link, too tired to find it right now.


Ed

[Nim]

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/...s-fact-fiction

"The vaccine court's data show that bona fide vaccine injuries are rare. For every million vaccine doses eligible for compensation that were distributed in the decade beginning in 2006, the court compensated one injury victim. Depending on the gravity of the disease in question, receiving a vaccine is orders of magnitude less dangerous than staying unvaccinated. The tetanus vaccine that Durant received causes a life-threatening allergic reaction in at most 0.0006% of people who get the shot. The U.S. case fatality rate from tetanus, by contrast, is 13.2%.

"One injury from vaccines is one too many, but it is also important to keep perspective," says Sarah Atanasoff, a physician at the VICP in Rockville, Maryland. "The benefits of vaccination to the individual, the local community, and the nation as a whole far outweigh the risks.""

Very few cases are brought before the court.....moms are told reaction is "normal" or a "coincidence". They are not even told there is a "vaccine court". And many doctors disagree with her........

"The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization". Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, pediatrician for almost 30 years, national director of Project Head Start's Medical Consultation Service, chairman of the Medical Licensing Committee for the state of Illinois, and associate professor of Preventive Medicine and Community Health in the School of Medicine of the University of Illinois.

[Pooka1]

"The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization". Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, pediatrician for almost 30 years, national director of Project Head Start's Medical Consultation Service, chairman of the Medical Licensing Committee for the state of Illinois, and associate professor of Preventive Medicine and Community Health in the School of Medicine of the University of Illinois.

Well what do you know? Mendelsohn has his very own page on Quackwatch!

https://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mendelson.html

But let's use some logic here, shall we?

the vast majority of physicians disagree with Mendelsohn on vaccinations. So the question is why? Are you saying they all know vaccines are dangerous but still recommend them because they are evil? Or because they are willing to injure children just to make money? Or maybe all these other doctors are just too dumb to realize that vaccines are dangerous?

Which is it? It has to be one of those things that covers the vast majority of physicians.

Ins't it more likely that Mendelsohn is ignorant or lying or just wacky?

[LindaRacine]

Well what do you know? Mendelsohn has his very own page on Quackwatch!

https://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mendelson.html

But let's use some logic here, shall we?

the vast majority of physicians disagree with Mendelsohn on vaccinations. So the question is why? Are you saying they all know vaccines are dangerous but still recommend them because they are evil? Or because they are willing to injure children just to make money? Or maybe all these other doctors are just too dumb to realize that vaccines are dangerous?

Which is it? It has to be one of those things that covers the vast majority of physicians.

Ins't it more likely that Mendelsohn is ignorant or lying or just wacky?

It would be much more lucrative for physicians to not vaccinate, so they could treat all of the new cases of disease.

[Pooka1]

It would be much more lucrative for physicians to not vaccinate, so they could treat all of the new cases of disease.

Excellent point.

Anti-vax people are not known for their logic.