Why surgeons are not recommending Vbs/Vbt

[titaniumed]

Ed, if you would be a surgeon, wouldn't you say nothing about Vbs/Vbt to your clients?

Flerc, Tough post....

If I were a ship captain, would I recommend buying a plane ticket?....Probably not. If I were trained in stapling or tethering I would mention it as an option....Surgeons should “offer” and “educate” about procedures, not “sell” procedures. We as scoliosis surgical candidates need time to make informed decisions. That’s why a patient based forum like this one is so important. Testimonials are the truth. Multiple testimonials are even better.

My surgeries came out great considering the magnitude, but I cant say get it done..... I see bad x-rays and know that there will be improvement with surgery but if something were to go wrong, I cant handle the guilt. This comes from respecting the members who have suffered here on the forum all these years. This comes from knowing the pain they are in and feeling that fire. I did that battle and came back so surgical complications have had an affect on me. They also don’t have to be hardware or fusion related complications.

Surgery is inherently dangerous.

But can save and improve lives and be an amazing thing.

There is no easy answer.

Ed

[titaniumed]

The main thing for me is really focusing on my attitude and stress when it comes to having a less than perfect spine. I read a book called mindfulness and it's helping me to not focus on the negatives of health issues and to deep breath and meditate.

I don’t have a problem with having a less than perfect spine. I never have.

I have a brother with an extremely serious and rare Kleinfelters, and one of my best friends growing up is a Thalidomide baby. Phocomelia. His mom was in England in 1958.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocomelia

Put it this way, I am not pro drug....

My father also had Lou Gehrigs....

In comparison, we don’t have any problems......Life is good.

Jim has a wooden leg....we bonded pretty tight over 50 years, heck I even drank champagne out of his wooden leg many years ago. LOL

Ed

[flerc]

Flerc, Tough post....

If I were a ship captain, would I recommend buying a plane ticket?....Probably not. If I were trained in stapling or tethering I would mention it as an option....Surgeons should “offer” and “educate” about procedures, not “sell” procedures. We as scoliosis surgical candidates need time to make informed decisions. That’s why a patient based forum like this one is so important. Testimonials are the truth. Multiple testimonials are even better.

My surgeries came out great considering the magnitude, but I cant say get it done..... I see bad x-rays and know that there will be improvement with surgery but if something were to go wrong, I cant handle the guilt. This comes from respecting the members who have suffered here on the forum all these years. This comes from knowing the pain they are in and feeling that fire. I did that battle and came back so surgical complications have had an affect on me. They also don’t have to be hardware or fusion related complications.

Surgery is inherently dangerous.

But can save and improve lives and be an amazing thing.

There is no easy answer.

Ed

Ed, you are a great fighter and sure a good person, so if you were a ship captain and people would ask you what to do to get a ticket to arrive to Australia in hours, otherwise something terrible may occurs for them or their sons, I'm sure that at least you would tell them that something as planes exists, not only ships as they thinks.
You proved with many non surgical options and none worked for you but you cannot ask to you surgeon what kind of person is he because Vbt was not available for you yet. But what about people having fusion now and never heard about Vbt?. And certainly, what they should to think about this forum if they also had trust in it and nobody here even old members never said nothing to them about Vbt?

[flerc]

My spine was around 30 degrees at age 15, it was 36 degrees at the age of 28 and before I went through pregnancy. It is now 42 degrees at the age of 42 and has remained that for about 2 years.

I wore a Boston brace ages 12-15 approx, and today focus on keeping my core tight by basically sucking in my gut and also sitting tall and visually keeping spine from slouching. I've learned some Scroth and yoga, and have taken a few certain stretches from that And spend about 30 minutes a day doing them. It has helped me. I don't do them consecutively but rather 10 minutes in the morning before work, 10 minutes mid day, and 10 minutes after work.

The main thing for me is really focusing on my attitude and stress when it comes to having a less than perfect spine. I read a book called mindfulness and it's helping me to not focus on the negatives of health issues and to deep breath and meditate.

Surely what you are doing or Gpr, Iyengar Yoga or Ostheopathy would be enough for you, even Spinecor for adults would be too much.

[Kay1974]

Let me just claify, I've never cared that my spine was twisted and deformed, what I've started caring more about is getting older and feeling more pain in my back because of the curve and the unknown and the watching And waiting approach.

Ed, I can't imagine what that was like to experience that with your dad. I'm so sorry. I've never been one to ever want to take a pill But I also realize now, that there are pharmaceuticals that help folks function when taken safely and I'm all for it if I need it. I can also say it would be nice for our state to finally get on board with medical marijuana but I guess that could be another post.

That wooden leg story though... That just is good stuff there, it has to be really these kinds of stories are what carry us all through and make life a little more fun and interesting.

I think a scoliosis curve for me is about adapting. 6 years ago I was a runner, But I had to give that up as my back and knee were started to hurt. So then I settled for walking at a fast speed. Now in this last 6 months, I can't walk fast so just walk at a regular speed and I'm ok with that. I can't lift anything heavy and Im careful about my body movements. Bending and kneeling are out for me. When I get out of my car, I swing both legs around and it doesn't bite so much anymore. I'm not sure what else I need to change but as I continue to age, I'm sure it will be more.

I know this sounds weird, but I am starting a water aquatic class this week with mostly older folks and I'm excited. I feel so comfortable with 60 and older folks because I move like that now and I don't feel as much pressure to hang out and relate with each other.






Ed[/QUOTE]

[burdle]

I look at it the other way... The guys doing VBT are part of mainstream medicine- if they thought that this was the way forward for more patients they would be banging on the doors of the fusion guys telling them! VBT seems to be for 'adults' as well as kids but adult is anything from ages 18 upwards.... A curve in an 18year old is likely to be 'flexible'- a curve in a 30-40 year old is not!

[Pooka1]

The VBT guys ARE the fusion guys. They are a subset of the fusion guys who have extra training in VBT. The reason all fusion guys don't have the VBT training is because it is new/experimental.

[burdle]

The VBT guys ARE the fusion guys. They are a subset of the fusion guys who have extra training in VBT. The reason all fusion guys don't have the VBT training is because it is new/experimental.

I agree - if they thought that fusion surgery was not viable any more the VBT guys would say so- I don't believe in conspiracies.

[flerc]

A curve in an 18year old is likely to be 'flexible'- a curve in a 30-40 year old is not!

Is not impossible and is very much possible with right treatments.

[flerc]

The VBT guys ARE the fusion guys. They are a subset of the fusion guys who have extra training in VBT. The reason all fusion guys don't have the VBT training is because it is new/experimental.

What is new or experimental for you???? Ok, you may say "new" if you are comparing this technique with the one century old fusion.

[Pooka1]

I agree - if they thought that fusion surgery was not viable any more the VBT guys would say so- I don't believe in conspiracies.

Exactly NOBODY thinks fusion is not viable any more other than a few lay people who, NOT coincidentally, are always pushing conspiracy theories among surgeons.

The hope is that VBT and perhaps stapling will replace fusion. VBT is certainly better in terms of ROM because it preserves the front-back motion but the side to side motion is constrained almost like a fusion. I think the main question going forward is that if tethering can't get the spine as straight as fusion can then the discs below it will have more uneven loading compared to fusion and those will be compromised more or faster than if the spine was straightened more. My one daughter was hyper-corrected to the point that she does not technically have scoliosis. The surgeon told her to her face that surgery is one-stop shopping for her. I later asked him why and he said because of her degree of correction. He did not tell my other daughter that who has a residual curve in her lumbar. It is my fervent hope that if either girl ever needs more surgery, they can get tethering so as to preserve the front-back motion of the lumbar.

[flerc]

I look at it the other way... The guys doing VBT are part of mainstream medicine- if they thought that this was the way forward for more patients they would be banging on the doors of the fusion guys telling them! VBT seems to be for 'adults' as well as kids

Probably to bang on the doors of the fusion guys is useless regardless if is a news for kids, teens or adults..

[flerc]

Exactly NOBODY thinks fusion is not viable any more other than a few lay people who, NOT coincidentally, are always pushing conspiracy theories among surgeons.

The only "conspirancy theories" (in fact defamations and calumnies) in this forum are against non surgical treatments.. I may say coincidently the same people saying that Vbt is not a good option yet.. certainly I'm not talking about conspiracy theories against Vbt here, but is really very much strange that that people against non surgical treatments here, never talk about Vbt in this section. If just only the 1% of your daily posts would mention Vbt, it would be known for every people thinking in surgery around the world!.

[flerc]

The VBT guys ARE the fusion guys. They are a subset of the fusion guys who have extra training in VBT. The reason all fusion guys don't have the VBT training is because it is new/experimental.

.. but certainly this seems to be a conspirancy theory against Vbt!.

[burdle]

.. but certainly this seems to be a conspirancy theory against Vbt!.

Can I ask why you think there is a conspiracy against VBT?

Certainly surgeons are doing VBT. Certainly surgeons are still doing Fusion on some patients. Why do you think that your opinion that no-one should have Fusion surgery is more valid than a trained surgeon?

No-one who posts here is advised against VBT - nobody who posts here is advised fusion surgery? ( as far as I can tell). Where is your evidence that apart from your own personal perspective that there is any one blocking VBT?