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Thread: Why surgeons are not recommending Vbs/Vbt

  1. #1
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    Why surgeons are not recommending Vbs/Vbt

    Even worse, why they are not telling their patients that something new (if we realize that fusion has more than a century) and without its serious disadvantages is available for them?
    Last edited by flerc; 01-28-2017 at 08:41 AM.

  2. #2
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    http://www.srs.org/patients-and-fami...ery-techniques

    Flerc, On the SRS site, its mentioned under compression based growth friendly surgery.

    They mention children under 35 degrees.

    Interesting that magnetic rods are now listed as an option....(This was a brand new option a few years ago if you remember Anthony)

    Nothing happens fast.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  3. #3
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    Yes Ed, you are right, they are talking about Vbs, but certainly not about Vbt that may be used in bigger curves and not only in kids.. even in teens and adults!. Another good question is why they don't say this there. But the big question is why fusion surgeons are not saying nothing to their clients (patients as they says) about Vbs/Vbt if it's known that there are surgeons using those techniques around the world.
    Last edited by flerc; 01-28-2017 at 04:14 PM.

  4. #4
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    Ed, if you would be a surgeon, wouldn't you say nothing about Vbs/Vbt to your clients?
    Last edited by flerc; 01-28-2017 at 05:49 PM.

  5. #5
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    Is this Vetebral tethering available for me? I'm 42 and would much rather a fusion less surgery if it were an option?

    Where in the USA is this performed and what Dr's are doing this for adults?

    Maybe there is hope to avoid rods?
    Melisse
    Age: 42: with 42* Lumbar, 32* Thoracic.
    Diagnosed with Adolescent Scoliosis @ 12 y.o. Thoracolumbar curve was around 28*
    Wore Boston Brace 2 -3 yrs

  6. #6
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    For adults is possible but there are some requirements, one as I know is flexibility, there are some cases in young adults but also a 50 years old women. You shoud to write here https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/, they are excellent people really and can answer you everything you want to know.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    For adults is possible but there are some requirements, one as I know is flexibility, there are some cases in young adults but also a 50 years old women. You shoud to write here https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/, they are excellent people really and can answer you everything you want to know.
    I am wondering when you say "flexible" what does that mean? As in can I bend side to side easy?
    Melisse
    Age: 42: with 42* Lumbar, 32* Thoracic.
    Diagnosed with Adolescent Scoliosis @ 12 y.o. Thoracolumbar curve was around 28*
    Wore Boston Brace 2 -3 yrs

  8. #8
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    I'm not totally sure about the concept they follows about flexibility, for me a spine is flexible if without the effect of gravity force (for instance being lying down) a very much significant degrees reduction is achieved. It would be impossible with a stiff spine.

  9. #9
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    I know that Spinecor Drs (no chiropractors) follows the same flexibility concept. They takes an x-ray standing up and other lying down and see the degrees, if the last is not 40% smaller, they do not put the Spinecor. Even in adults bone remodeling is possible but it would probably be impossible if the curve is not reduced. Any way I recommend you to enter the Face group.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay1974 View Post
    Is this Vetebral tethering available for me? I'm 42 and would much rather a fusion less surgery if it were an option?

    Where in the USA is this performed and what Dr's are doing this for adults?

    Maybe there is hope to avoid rods?
    Melisse

    Tethering “could” be an option for you, but you would have to talk to one of the tethering surgeons very soon. The facebook tethering group would be a good idea to learn more.

    The problem is that NOBODY wants surgery and we all wait until there is a major pain problem. Nobody rushes into surgery.....

    You would have to make contact with Dr Betz or Dr Lonner up in NJ and NYC.

    You might be able to avoid rods.... Tethering is very interesting since it spares muscle stripping and pedicle breach’s since the screws are driven in sideways through the vertebral body. There are no long term studies since it’s a new procedure.

    Bending x-rays (side to side) are what surgeons use to determine spine flexibility for determining fusion length. All scoliosis surgical patients do these “bender” x rays. Kids bend out like rubber, but we have a tendency to stiffen up as we age. Many seniors lose it completely and self autofuse.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=titaniumed;168308]Melisse

    Tethering “could” be an option for you, but you would have to talk to one of the tethering surgeons very soon. The facebook tethering group would be a good idea to learn more.

    The problem is that NOBODY wants surgery and we all wait until there is a major pain problem. Nobody rushes into surgery.....

    You would have to make contact with Dr Betz or Dr Lonner up in NJ and NYC.

    You might be able to avoid rods.... Tethering is very interesting since it spares muscle stripping and pedicle breach’s since the screws are driven in sideways through the vertebral body. There are no long term studies since it’s a new procedure.

    Bending x-rays (side to side) are what surgeons use to determine spine flexibility for determining fusion length. All scoliosis surgical patients do these “bender” x rays. Kids bend out like rubber, but we have a tendency to stiffen up as we age. Many seniors lose it completely and self autofuse.

    Ed[/QUOTE

    I definitely think I should talk to one of these Dr's that perform this tethering method. Thank you for the names Ed.

    I haven't had bending xrays yet. I don't have major pain but would say it's low level pain mostly. My MRI did not show and disc herniations.

    Do you know of any adults that have had this done and if so, how it went?
    Melisse
    Age: 42: with 42* Lumbar, 32* Thoracic.
    Diagnosed with Adolescent Scoliosis @ 12 y.o. Thoracolumbar curve was around 28*
    Wore Boston Brace 2 -3 yrs

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=Kay1974;168309]
    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    Do you know of any adults that have had this done and if so, how it went?
    I do not. But would love to see some testimonials... adult testimonial's would be better.

    If you have scoliosis, you should visit a scoliosis surgeon. It doesn’t matter if you are having surgery or not, but this very important. Just because you visit doesn’t mean your having surgery. Since you have not picked a scoliosis surgeon, picking one who has experience with tethering would make more sense since you are 42 with curves that might get that answer you want.

    Funny how the SRS site mentions compression based “friendly” surgery. They added “friendly” onto a major spine deformity procedure. It’s like using friendly to describe the separation of conjoined twins (at the head) which is a push on their part to help relax and promote acceptance of something that scares the dickens out of all of us.....I think that if they decided to use the word friendly, they must be gaining confidence in the method. I don’t think the president of SRS would allow the word if they didn’t at least feel some confidence.

    Last time I looked at stapling studies, the stats were not something I was impressed with. Basically it ran 50%, about the same as long term weather forecasting. I could be wrong, and someone can post studies that prove otherwise. I have not looked at any tethering data.

    On a sidenote...I read a very disturbing story about a 55 year old who had a history of uterine cancer. She was released a few years back after her cancer therapy and bought an RV and traveled all over and has a great blog. Yesterday, I read that she was having spine pain, starting as a muscle pull, was in Mexico and she went in after a few weeks of this pain only to find out that her cancer wrapped around her spine. She had surgery in Mexico and that they could only remove 90% of this cancer and the docs are giving her a year to live.
    https://winnieviews.blogspot.com/201...tion.html#more

    We as scolis live in pain....many of us get used to it. As we reach our elder years, do we need to be running in for x-rays on every back pain event? I don’t know what to think about this now....I guess after countless x-rays, major surgeries, flouroscopy, CT scans, I guess one more set doesn’t matter much, does it?

    “If you don’t plant a tree, you will never sit in the shade” –Warren Buffet-
    Of course coming from Uncle Warren, it sounds like sound financial advice, but this also applies to scoliosis patients. You don’t know how the tree will grow, or if it will fall down, but if you don’t plant it, there is no shade. Scoliosis surgery is like this....

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=titaniumed;168311]
    Quote Originally Posted by Kay1974 View Post
    Last time I looked at stapling studies, the stats were not something I was impressed with. Basically it ran 50%, about the same as long term weather forecasting. I could be wrong, and someone can post studies that prove otherwise. I have not looked at any tethering data.
    I hope Maria comes on and tells us the straight dope but last I read (a long while ago), stapling tends to work in cases that have a lower expectation of progression. So it is most apparently successful in lumbar and smaller T curves. That suggests it is not changing the natural history much. That said, it seems to have been a complete success in Maria's son... large T curve reduced greatly.

    Because they do tethering on larger curves as against the consensus to fuse large T curves in growing kids, I think they have high hopes it will change natural histories to a great extent. I am keeping my eye on tethering in case my daughters ever have issues with their unfused lumbars. The one kid has a pretty straight lumbar and is back in the general population per the surgeon. Of course I, with no scoliosis, am in the general population and have herniated two discs, one in my early 30s. The other kid has a small residual curve that make need attention in the out years.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #14
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    Kay, how many degrees do you have? What was you doing up to now?

  15. #15
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    Ed, I can see your point about all the test and radiation that us Scolis have to go through in a lifespan, it seems to be never ending, especially if you want to stay ahead of your curve.

    I am happy to see this tethering method offered, if not for me atleast for the possibity if my 11 year old daughter inherits this twist from me.

    My spine was around 30 degrees at age 15, it was 36 degrees at the age of 28 and before I went through pregnancy. It is now 42 degrees at the age of 42 and has remained that for about 2 years.

    I wore a Boston brace ages 12-15 approx, and today focus on keeping my core tight by basically sucking in my gut and also sitting tall and visually keeping spine from slouching. I've learned some Scroth and yoga, and have taken a few certain stretches from that And spend about 30 minutes a day doing them. It has helped me. I don't do them consecutively but rather 10 minutes in the morning before work, 10 minutes mid day, and 10 minutes after work.

    The main thing for me is really focusing on my attitude and stress when it comes to having a less than perfect spine. I read a book called mindfulness and it's helping me to not focus on the negatives of health issues and to deep breath and meditate.

    I really appreciate the support from this site, we're all in this together. Just nicer to know others with the same types of issues who can relate at a deeper understanding.
    Melisse
    Age: 42: with 42* Lumbar, 32* Thoracic.
    Diagnosed with Adolescent Scoliosis @ 12 y.o. Thoracolumbar curve was around 28*
    Wore Boston Brace 2 -3 yrs

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