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Thread: VBT challenges Wolff’s law. Who's right?

  1. #1
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    VBT challenges Wolff’s law. Who's right?

    "Bone Remodeling
    The phenomenon of cellular turnover or remodeling of bone is a process that occurs on the surface of various portions of bone (periosteal, endosteal, trabecular, and haversian canal). Generally, bone remodeling is a lifelong activity that responds to mechanical stress (torsion bending, compression, tension) according to Wolff’s law.3 In simplified terms, Wolff’s law states that intermittent physiologic loads applied to bone stimulate adaptive responses. Removal of mechanical forces on the bone has the opposite effect. That is, when bone does not receive appropriate physiologic stress, osteoclastic activity overwhelms osteoblast production, which in turn reduces bone mass. The Hueter-Volkmann law is the reverse of Wolff’s law and is more specifically applied to compression and tensile forces acting on physeal growth plates. Simply stated, this law suggests that compression forces limit bone growth, whereas tensile stress stimulates growth.3
    Osseous tissue also is responsive to piezoelectric charges. In conjunction with mechanical forces strengthening compression and tensile stress, compression produces an electronegative charge that acts to stimulate osteoblast activity. Tensile stress produces an electropositive charge that stimulates osteoclastic activity. Therefore mechanical laws of stress (Wolff’s law) produce electromechanical changes that act to maintain equilibrium between bone formation and bone resorption."

    from http://clinicalgate.com/bone-healing/

    VBT represents an all new understanding about bone remodelling. Am I wrong or the Wolff's law and the Hueter-Volkmann law are not compatible? If VBT works the wolff's law is flawed. who is right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardis View Post
    "Bone Remodeling
    The phenomenon of cellular turnover or remodeling of bone is a process that occurs on the surface of various portions of bone (periosteal, endosteal, trabecular, and haversian canal). Generally, bone remodeling is a lifelong activity that responds to mechanical stress (torsion bending, compression, tension) according to Wolff’s law.3 In simplified terms, Wolff’s law states that intermittent physiologic loads applied to bone stimulate adaptive responses. Removal of mechanical forces on the bone has the opposite effect. That is, when bone does not receive appropriate physiologic stress, osteoclastic activity overwhelms osteoblast production, which in turn reduces bone mass. The Hueter-Volkmann law is the reverse of Wolff’s law and is more specifically applied to compression and tensile forces acting on physeal growth plates. Simply stated, this law suggests that compression forces limit bone growth, whereas tensile stress stimulates growth.3
    Osseous tissue also is responsive to piezoelectric charges. In conjunction with mechanical forces strengthening compression and tensile stress, compression produces an electronegative charge that acts to stimulate osteoblast activity. Tensile stress produces an electropositive charge that stimulates osteoclastic activity. Therefore mechanical laws of stress (Wolff’s law) produce electromechanical changes that act to maintain equilibrium between bone formation and bone resorption."

    from http://clinicalgate.com/bone-healing/

    VBT represents an all new understanding about bone remodelling. Am I wrong or the Wolff's law and the Hueter-Volkmann law are not compatible? If VBT works the wolff's law is flawed. who is right?
    Why do you say that?? In fact, Wolf's law is what lead Vbt surgeons to use it in adults. Only Spinecor and Vbt are absolutely compatible with this law.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardis View Post
    "Bone Remodeling
    The phenomenon of cellular turnover or remodeling of bone is a process that occurs on the surface of various portions of bone (periosteal, endosteal, trabecular, and haversian canal). Generally, bone remodeling is a lifelong activity that responds to mechanical stress (torsion bending, compression, tension) according to Wolff’s law.3 In simplified terms, Wolff’s law states that intermittent physiologic loads applied to bone stimulate adaptive responses. Removal of mechanical forces on the bone has the opposite effect. That is, when bone does not receive appropriate physiologic stress, osteoclastic activity overwhelms osteoblast production, which in turn reduces bone mass. The Hueter-Volkmann law is the reverse of Wolff’s law and is more specifically applied to compression and tensile forces acting on physeal growth plates. Simply stated, this law suggests that compression forces limit bone growth, whereas tensile stress stimulates growth.3
    Osseous tissue also is responsive to piezoelectric charges. In conjunction with mechanical forces strengthening compression and tensile stress, compression produces an electronegative charge that acts to stimulate osteoblast activity. Tensile stress produces an electropositive charge that stimulates osteoclastic activity. Therefore mechanical laws of stress (Wolff’s law) produce electromechanical changes that act to maintain equilibrium between bone formation and bone resorption."

    from http://clinicalgate.com/bone-healing/

    VBT represents an all new understanding about bone remodelling. Am I wrong or the Wolff's law and the Hueter-Volkmann law are not compatible? If VBT works the wolff's law is flawed. who is right?
    You are absolutely correct about the apparently opposite effects of Wolff's Law and Hueter-Volkmann.

    I suspect VBT in growing kids is affecting the discs mostly. That is where the fist curvature starts as far as I know. For adults I think VBT is just holding the spine straight and no remodeling is occurring to speak of because nobody is suggesting that the tether can ever come off of adults. They don't take the tether off kids either unless they are over-correcting.

    ps. Spincore has no evidence of efficacy which is why surgeons largely ignore it. A research surgeon in California said they couldn't make it work. Therefore there is NO principle involved with Spinecor.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 06-01-2017 at 09:48 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

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    Here is a technical discussion about how the two principles can be understood... it is fairly complex and the result is that the two principles work at different scales.

    So H-V in practice only produces a small effect on growth from dynamic loading and Wolff's law has to do mainly with internal bone structure.

    4. Changes in bone growth from mechanical loading

    The Hueter-Volkmann ‘law’ (increased compression of a growth plate reduces the growth rate, and vice versa) is qualitative and does not take into account the load history (loading rate, static versus cyclic) nor factors such as the growth plate dimensions, stage of maturity and underlying growth rate that might influence the sensitivity to mechanical loading. However, it should be noted that the Hueter-Volkmann ‘Law’ expresses a relationship that is different from that described by Wolff’s Law, which relates primarily to alterations in the internal architecture of bones, especially the trabeculae, as well as their transverse profiles. Changes in the orientation and size of trabeculae are related to the direction and magnitude of prevailing cyclic mechanical stress, with greater stress producing greater bone density and apposition. In contrast, growth plates are affected by static, sustained loads, with increased compression reducing the longitudinal growth (Stokes et al., 2005; Stokes et al., 2006; Stokes et al., 2007; Cancel et al., 2009). Although numerous experiments show empirically that bone growth is influenced by sustained load according to the Hueter-Volkmann Law, growth differences in individuals with differing activity levels are very small (Niehoff et al., 2004), indicating that growth is not much influenced by physiological dynamic loading.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739053/
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    You are absolutely correct about the apparently opposite effects of Wolff's Law and Hueter-Volkmann.

    I suspect VBT in growing kids is affecting the discs mostly. That is where the fist curvature starts as far as I know. For adults I think VBT is just holding the spine straight and no remodeling is occurring to speak of because nobody is suggesting that the tether can ever come off of adults. They don't take the tether off kids either unless they are over-correcting.

    ps. Spincore has no evidence of efficacy which is why surgeons largely ignore it. A research surgeon in California said they couldn't make it work. Therefore there is NO principle involved with Spinecor.
    Facts are facts so what a surgeon wants to say has nothing to do. Say him to come here and say that if it is so sure that reality is different to what it is. Of course Spinecor (with significant reduction in brace) is compatible with Wolff's law, show him what scientists said about braces and this law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    For adults I think VBT is just holding the spine straight and no remodeling is occurring to speak of because nobody is suggesting that the tether can ever come off of adults.
    This is exactly why bone remodeling occurs!. If according Wolff's law says, remodeling shoud to occurs, why cannot tether come off of adults?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    This is exactly why bone remodeling occurs!. If according Wolff's law says, remodeling shoud to occurs, why cannot tether come off of adults?
    Forces have an obvious impact on the shape the spine assumes as a person ages, even after being skeletally mature. That is why there are traumatic injuries in the bones of the spine. And they happen in kids and adults.
    Last edited by richardis; 06-02-2017 at 08:14 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardis View Post
    Forces have an obvious impact on the shape the spine assumes as a person ages, even after being skeletally mature. That is why there are traumatic injuries in the bones of the spine. And they happen in kids and adults.
    Yes, but why do you think Vbt is against this fact?
    Vbt in an internal way and Spinecor for adults in an external way, both uses the Wolff's law to reverse the curve. As I understand, this law may be resume as the adaptability of tissues in order to survive. Do you know that is used this law to allow the bones of adults to grow? It's not something incredible?
    Vertebras are bones and they tends to adapt to the curve, so they tends to change the shape becameing more wedged.. the scoliosis vicious cycle also in adults. Spinecor and Vbt holding the spine straight, not only breaks this vicious cycle but allows vertebras to remodeling their original shape.
    Well, this is what I ever thought even until reading this http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC308...Sf7fxWA0MwTD.0 and certainly it seems to be something obvious.

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