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Thread: More on the Genetics of Scoliosis

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by burdle View Post
    Just to play devil's advocate - take a look at this

    http://edzardernst.com/2016/03/mind-...ce-over-truth/


    There are some crap studies being done and getting published.
    I agree.

    1. RetractionWatch is trying to catalog some of these things that should not have been published.

    2. A large majority of "landmark" cancer studies are not repeatable.

    3. A majority of published research studies are probably false for various reasons, many of them honest.

    4. etc.

    NONE of this negates the facts that:

    1. Dingo doesn't understand any of this and it shows in each post

    2. Dingo cherry picks articles that he likes and he only likes things that he thinks he understands. This is exactly NOT how science is done yet he claims to be scientific.

    3. If Dingo can come up to speed in a very complex area of medicine with no relevant training by doing a few google searches then why do other people need colleges, graduate schools, and years of work in laboratories training in a field?

    4. It is rich that he alludes to misconduct on the part of the entire SRS when in fact the only misconduct I have seen in this field is by one of Dingo's favor medical authors. WRT this medical author, this behavior includes not being open/honest with medical colleagues and double publishing data without admitting it. So, so ironic that Dingo mentioned this. How myopic.

    Why do I care? I care because I know first-hand what it takes to get to the cutting edge of a scientific field. I know what these researchers did to get where they are. That is why it is so annoying when a know-it-all ignorant lay person breezes in and thinks they can do a few google searches and be in a position to criticize scientists. That takes arrogance to symphonic levels. With all his posts, Dingo just proves he remains clueless about science and how it works and how it is done.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    To those of you who are reading this discussion; SNPs or single nucleotide polymorphisms are a switch in ONE nucleotide in the chain of DNA. DNA is made up of four nucleotides that pair together with one another. That's it. Our whole genetic system, and that of every other living organism is made up of these four nucleotides, from bacteria to plant life to humans. A switch in just ONE nucleotide pair in the wrong spot can wreak havoc.

    [...]

    I hope I made this more easy to understand.

    Rohrer01
    Yes that was a nice explanation! Thanks for typing it.

    From Rohrer's post it is clear that:

    1. she has science training in the field of molecular biology/biochem

    2. she can relate it on a level that is understandable to lay people

    3. she is operating much differently than Dingo who has no training and it shows.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    I had such a low Vit D level that I was put on 50,000 units daily for 4 months. I am outside a lot and don't use sunscreen (I know... bad) because I know I have low Vit. D. I don't have scoliosis.

    Next.
    The same was true with me, only I took the 50,000 units weekly for four months. I have to take 2,000 units daily for maintenance. I had it checked recently and it only dropped by less than 5 units over a four year period. So that is the perfect maintenance dose for ME. It might be a good idea for you to get checked just to see where you are, especially if you aren't taking daily supplements. It's just a suggestion.

    Low D levels are notoriously known for causing SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) as they do lower the serotonin levels in the brain. Many people take SSRIs in the winter months. If they would only get their D levels checked they may avoid having to take medications. Antidepressants are a great invention for those that need them. But, if they don't need it because of a vitamin deficiency, it would seem smarter to take the vitamin. Just my opinion. It also has an overall effect on the nervous system, from what I understand. So for people with disorders that affect the nervous system, like me, it's a good idea to have that up in the upper half of "normal" according to my physicians.

    I've NEVER heard of it being linked to being a causative agent in scoliosis. My thought on that is most of us do have low levels of D for some reason. The FDA is aware of this. Otherwise why would it always be added to milk and other foods? So when they find kids with scoliosis having low D levels, it seems to make more sense that they just fit into the rest of the population with low D levels. It just doesn't seem scoliosis specific. You would have to do several randomize studies with large sample size and test the group of kids with scoliosis against the group of kids without scoliosis. You would have to do this regionally in samples across the globe.

    Stay well,
    Rohrer01
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    I've NEVER heard of it being linked to being a causative agent in scoliosis. My thought on that is most of us do have low levels of D for some reason. The FDA is aware of this. Otherwise why would it always be added to milk and other foods? So when they find kids with scoliosis having low D levels, it seems to make more sense that they just fit into the rest of the population with low D levels. It just doesn't seem scoliosis specific. You would have to do several randomize studies with large sample size and test the group of kids with scoliosis against the group of kids without scoliosis. You would have to do this regionally in samples across the globe.

    Stay well,
    Rohrer01
    Yes I agree. Science is a hard game.

    I am going to mention the connection to SAD based on you comments here. I hadn't heard that.

    Thanks Rohrer.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Yes I agree. Science is a hard game.

    I am going to mention the connection to SAD based on you comments here. I hadn't heard that.

    Thanks Rohrer.
    ...or you could Google it! LOL
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    ...or you could Google it! LOL
    +2

    .

    .

    .......
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #37
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    Scoliscore Update: On the 26th of April Nasdaq notified Transgenomic, the owner of the Scoliscore test that it will be delisted in 45 days unless it finds a way to become compliant with the exchange's financial requirements. It's share price closed at $0.61 on Friday. OUCH! Better act fast if you want a $2,950 Scoliscore test.

    26-Apr-2016 Notice of Delisting or Failure to Satisfy a Continued Listing Rule or Standard;

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Scoliscore Update: On the 26th of April Nasdaq notified Transgenomic, the owner of the Scoliscore test that it will be delisted in 45 days unless it finds a way to become compliant with the exchange's financial requirements. It's share price closed at $0.61 on Friday. OUCH! Better act fast if you want a $2,950 Scoliscore test.

    26-Apr-2016 Notice of Delisting or Failure to Satisfy a Continued Listing Rule or Standard;
    Are you as sure about the situation with Scoliscore driving the business metrics as you are that Scoliscore is testing for genes?

    Do you understand what actually is going on with Transgenomic that you are ignorantly ascribing to the Scoliscore situation because you don't know that the hell you are talking about?

    Do you understand the possibility that even if Scoliscore cost double what it does that there might be so few kids who fall into the test category that it might be a good business decision to stop offering it for that reason as opposed to any other reason?

    Do you have any idea how many OTHER tests they offer and that they are focusing the business on other things besides Scoliscore for reason unrelated to how accurate Scoliscore is?

    If you have a test that is 90% accurate but only nets X profit and another test that is only 80% accurate but nets 100X profit and the company is publicly held, which test should be dropped and which test should be marketed aggressively?

    You are naively isolating (your flawed understanding of) test accuracy of Scoliscore when business decisions are made on far more and different metrics. You never work the problem... I have asked you several times to work the problem but you can't.

    If the most accurate test in the world will only ever have a tiny market, even if they have 100% of the market, at a certain profit margin, why would a company continue to provide it?

    Do you know if they are still offering Scoliscore at the moment?

    Why are you posting about this? Why are you emotionally rejecting the genetic basis of IS?

    Do we have to add ignorance of business to ignorance of science to your resume? I think so.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 05-03-2016 at 07:36 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  9. #39
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    I mistook this Swedish study for the Danish study. Dingo likes to present singular aberrant studies that are hard to explain against the backdrop of all the better studies that yield different results that he doesn't like for emotional reasons.

    The Danish study is mentioned and then dismissed (self-reported garbage in - garbage out issue) in the review article. This Swedish study is not even mentioned for some reason as I recall. I don't know why they don't even mention it though it might be due to taking self-reported GIGO to operatic levels.

    There are a few papers in my field that are aberrant for known reasons and are either brought up and immediately dismissed or ignored because of the methodology used. The aberrant results of these two self-reported studies that don't have the benefit of any quality assurance or control on the results are practically useless... we can see the quality of lay people self reporting stuff or trying to understand the scientific literature at all. It goes nowhere fast.

    How "genetic is IS??? From the Wise et al. (2008) article... emphasis added...

    How “Genetic” is IS Compared to other Common and Complex Diseases?

    Familial risk values may be used to estimate and compare the genetic effects across diseases. Prior sibling risk studies of IS have reported 19% and 11.5% of siblings affected for ≥ 10, ≥ 20-degree curves, respectively, compared to population recurrence risks of ≤ 2% [23, 33, 34]. In a cohort of 305 IS families we found 16% of siblings affected (unpublished data) and compared these numbers to the incidence of IS in the general population in order to estimate the sibling risk ratio (λs) for IS. This yielded overall λs values ranging from 8-23, dependent on curve severity. These values represent significant genetic effects that are comparable to those for other well-described complex genetic diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis (RA), Crohn’s disease (CD), type 1 diabetes (T1D), or psoriasis (Table ​11). The possibility of a major gene contributing to IS, analogous to human leukocyte antigen (HLA) genes in the listed inflammatory diseases, has been suggested but remains unproven [39].

    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Someday if a researcher proves that Scoliosis is caused by a gene that person will win a Nobel prize in medicine. I'll keep my eyes pealed for that headline. In the meantime meh....

    Heritability of scoliosis.

    Abstract
    PURPOSE: To estimate the heritability of scoliosis in the Swedish Twin Registry.

    METHODS: Self-reported data on scoliosis from 64,578 twins in the Swedish Twin Registry were analysed. Prevalence, pair- and probandwise concordances and tetrachoric correlations in mono- and dizygotic same-sex twins were calculated. The relative importance of genetic variance, i.e. the heritability, and unique and shared environmental variance was estimated using structural equation modelling in Mx software. In addition, all twins in the twin registry were matched against the Swedish Inpatient Register on the primary diagnosis idiopathic scoliosis.

    RESULTS: The prevalence of scoliosis was 4%. Pair- and probandwise concordance was 0.11/0.17 for mono- and 0.04/0.08 for same-sex dizygotic twins. The tetrachoric correlation (95% CI) was 0.41 (0.33-0.49) in mono- and 0.18 (0.09-0.29) in dizygotic twins. The most favourable model in the Mx analyses estimated the additive genetic effects (95% CI) to 0.38 (0.18-0.46) and the unique environmental effects to 0.62 (0.54-0.70). Shared environmental effects were not significant. The pairwise/probandwise concordance for idiopathic scoliosis in the Swedish Inpatient Register was 0.08/0.15 for monozygotic and zero/zero for same-sex dizygotic twins.

    CONCLUSION: Using self-reported data on scoliosis from the Swedish Twin Registry, we estimate that 38% of the variance in the liability to develop scoliosis is due to additive genetic effects and 62% to unique environmental effects. This is the first study of sufficient size to make heritability estimates of scoliosis.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #40
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    http://www.scoliosissos.com/news/pos...chain-reaction

    scoligold are UK based but they are Physios which means they are regulated by our HCPT unlike chiros

  11. #41
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    Dingo, I agree it would be strange to see a serious article saying what they says about something as scolioscore, at least without saying why they are so sure that really works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Dingo likes to present singular aberrant studies that are hard to explain against the backdrop of all the better studies that yield different results that he doesn't like for emotional reasons.
    You might ask her which are her emotional reasons leading she to lies about parents on this forum, not only in a dishonest way, but even against the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post

    They are philosophically opposed to spinal fusion no matter the consequences of refusing treatment for their child.

  12. #42
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    Do you never learn?
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine View Post
    Do you never learn?

    What? That she is able to attack and say all what she likes to say because the power here protects her? Everyone here knows that.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    What? That she is able to attack and say all what she likes to say because the power here protects her? Everyone here knows that.
    I'll stand on the record.

    How confident are you that you even understand the record?

    Lay people opining in a research section on a scoliosis forum is an inevitable train wreck. And it shows.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 05-25-2016 at 07:54 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #45
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    The problem is not be or not be lay person, I'm sure you are a lay person (not a scientist) but this is not the problem with you.
    Last edited by flerc; 05-24-2016 at 05:53 AM.

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