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Thread: SpineCor and Insurance

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Are you suggestion Newton missed something or needs your input to interpret his clinical study results?
    I'm not suggesting nothing. I'm saying that if reduction in brace was not significant, it has not much sense his interpretation.

  2. #32
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    And really your comment if you don't know that!.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Yes Burdle, If you think that surgeons are absolutely good intentioned and having all the current human knowledge about scoliosis, you have nothing to do in this section. You should to forget scoliosis or have fusion if your curve is enough big or wait until that moment.
    You know you do say some silly things ... If you weren't so silly I would probably be offended. You know nothing about me or my scoliosis - for the record I have ALWAYS refused surgery, but not for your silly immature reasons of suggesting that surgeons are only happy with the status QUO and are somehow only in it for the money. Perhaps you should looks at SOSORT, the BRS and SAUK in Uk to see the latest impetus towards other methods of treatment. I reject surgery for ME for my INDIVIDUAL reasons but I do believe that if I were to decide my surgeon would have my best interests at heart and would not suggest it if there were other options.

  4. #34
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    And now I am getting a bit annoyed, @Flerc.

    Not all Scoliosis will progress to surgical levels but people with a significant curve looks for other treatments to help them live with the curve they have so DONT tell me which forum I should post in or insult me in such a way.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by burdle View Post
    And now I am getting a bit annoyed, @Flerc.

    Not all Scoliosis will progress to surgical levels but people with a significant curve looks for other treatments to help them live with the curve they have so DONT tell me which forum I should post in or insult me in such a way.
    Burdle,

    I understand your reaction to Flerc. It is understandable.

    When I saw the extent of irrational and emotional thinking exhibited by flerc and other parents of kids with scoliosis, I was shocked at first. When you are managing your child's medical case, the very last thing you need to be is irrational and emotional. You save those for private times away from your child and their surgeon.

    I suspect the child's diagnosis sends some people around the bend. They lose it. They do not realize they have lost it. Flerc's reaction is to make irrational, emotional, magical claims. Another parent here thinks they are failing their child if they aren't actively pretending to be a scoliosis researcher and criticizing real scoliosis researchers. Another parent just denies facts.

    I bet some/most/all of these parents were not overtly irrational so much of the time before their child's diagnosis but I don't know that.

    While a diagnosis of scoliosis in your child may be a REASON to behave badly and be unhelpful on a forum, it is not an EXCUSE.

    Watching your child deal with scoliosis is harrowing and I think every parent (without scoliosis) would change places with their child if they could. I cut them slack whenever possible. Sometimes it isn't possible.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 07-14-2016 at 07:08 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by burdle View Post
    You know you do say some silly things ... If you weren't so silly I would probably be offended. You know nothing about me or my scoliosis - for the record I have ALWAYS refused surgery, but not for your silly immature reasons of suggesting that surgeons are only happy with the status QUO and are somehow only in it for the money. Perhaps you should looks at SOSORT, the BRS and SAUK in Uk to see the latest impetus towards other methods of treatment. I reject surgery for ME for my INDIVIDUAL reasons but I do believe that if I were to decide my surgeon would have my best interests at heart and would not suggest it if there were other options.
    Yes, it seems you really thinks I'm stupid as you are saying. I would be really stupid if I'd I be saying that EVERY surgeon wants fusion for ever since I'm talking about surgeons inventing Spinecor and TRM and I said they are good inventions and if you would not show the same Pooka1's thinking, I'd tell you about my relationship with many surgeons, even with some of them absolutely convinced that up today only fusion works, as the surgeon I visit since the firsts x-rays years ago until now.
    Certainly is difficult to distinguish if I'm talking with you or Pooka1, 'I agree Burdle' , 'I agree Pooka1' all the time, of course.. both showing the same kind of illogical mind, at least in all threads where I saw you. And you don't seems to realize that I only can to know you, about what you say in the threads I read.. coincidently the same that Pooka1 says, so is logic to believe that you also hate non surgical methods, I don't remember to hear you before saying something against that possibility. Coincidently is also not possible for you to interpret what I say in a rational way. What a rational person believing (as you showed to believe) that every surgeons are absolutely good intentioned and having all the scoliosis knowledge up today, should to do? Of course what I suggested you, don't you believe? Of course all not curves progress to over 50, but you should to follow the watch and wait as I said you.
    Coincidently you also don't seem to realize that Pooka1 is not so smart and wise as she pretends to be, really the only conclusion is that she is really sick or having really very dark intentions. What could we believe about someone don't needing and don't believing in non surgical options posting all the day in this section? And surely you think that it has not any importance the serious and unacceptable accusation to parents in this forum trusting in non surgical options, so I think you also are the same kind of person too. She should to be sentenced and is what should to happen if there are reasons to think that judicial system works!.
    She is only able to talk in the way you are talking to me, insulting, attacking in every possible way, never talking about scoliosis issues really, just only about certain lack of studies, is all what she can do.. and running to ask help to the moderator when I reply her what she deserves.
    So don't feel attacked if I talk with you as if I would be talking with her.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Yes, it seems you really thinks I'm stupid as you are saying. I would be really stupid if I'd I be saying that EVERY surgeon wants fusion for ever since I'm talking about surgeons inventing Spinecor and TRM and I said they are good inventions and if you would not show the same Pooka1's thinking, I'd tell you about my relationship with many surgeons, even with some of them absolutely convinced that up today only fusion works, as the surgeon I visit since the firsts x-rays years ago until now.
    Certainly is difficult to distinguish if I'm talking with you or Pooka1, 'I agree Burdle' , 'I agree Pooka1' all the time, of course.. both showing the same kind of illogical mind, at least in all threads where I saw you. And you don't seems to realize that I only can to know you, about what you say in the threads I read.. coincidently the same that Pooka1 says, so is logic to believe that you also hate non surgical methods, I don't remember to hear you before saying something against that possibility. Coincidently is also not possible for you to interpret what I say in a rational way. What a rational person believing (as you showed to believe) that every surgeons are absolutely good intentioned and having all the scoliosis knowledge up today, should to do? Of course what I suggested you, don't you believe? Of course all not curves progress to over 50, but you should to follow the watch and wait as I said you.
    Coincidently you also don't seem to realize that Pooka1 is not so smart and wise as she pretends to be, really the only conclusion is that she is really sick or having really very dark intentions. What could we believe about someone don't needing and don't believing in non surgical options posting all the day in this section? And surely you think that it has not any importance the serious and unacceptable accusation to parents in this forum trusting in non surgical options, so I think you also are the same kind of person too. She should to be sentenced and is what should to happen if there are reasons to think that judicial system works!.
    She is only able to talk in the way you are talking to me, insulting, attacking in every possible way, never talking about scoliosis issues really, just only about certain lack of studies, is all what she can do.. and running to ask help to the moderator when I reply her what she deserves.
    So don't feel attacked if I talk with you as if I would be talking with her.
    This is irrational and emotional. You are making my point.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #38
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    If it could be true, you could understand it, but you cannot.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    One surgeon I spoke to said they weren't persuaded by the publications on the purported efficacy of the brace.

    Another, Peter Newton, very eminent researchy ped orthopedic surgeon said they did clinical work with the brace but "couldn't make it work." So the guy I talked to who concluded the publications were nonsense was probably right.

    If it worked, all pediatric orthopedic surgeons would offer it. As it stands now, very few if any do. It's mainly chiros offering it because they don't know how to assess scientific evidence apparently.
    And what happened with this Pooka1? Did you asked him about if it was reduction in brace or not?

  10. #40
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    Anyway I'm not too much interested in knowing that. If he is a pediatric surgeon, I supposed he only used it in kids and there are technical issues leading to think that probably is better in them a rigid brace. I'm interested in Spinecor for adults.. as we were talking about.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Yes, it seems you really thinks I'm stupid as you are saying. I would be really stupid if I'd I be saying that EVERY surgeon wants fusion for ever since I'm talking about surgeons inventing Spinecor and TRM and I said they are good inventions and if you would not show the same Pooka1's thinking, I'd tell you about my relationship with many surgeons, even with some of them absolutely convinced that up today only fusion works, as the surgeon I visit since the firsts x-rays years ago until now.
    Certainly is difficult to distinguish if I'm talking with you or Pooka1, 'I agree Burdle' , 'I agree Pooka1' all the time, of course.. both showing the same kind of illogical mind, at least in all threads where I saw you. And you don't seems to realize that I only can to know you, about what you say in the threads I read.. coincidently the same that Pooka1 says, so is logic to believe that you also hate non surgical methods, I don't remember to hear you before saying something against that possibility. Coincidently is also not possible for you to interpret what I say in a rational way. What a rational person believing (as you showed to believe) that every surgeons are absolutely good intentioned and having all the scoliosis knowledge up today, should to do? Of course what I suggested you, don't you believe? Of course all not curves progress to over 50, but you should to follow the watch and wait as I said you.
    Coincidently you also don't seem to realize that Pooka1 is not so smart and wise as she pretends to be, really the only conclusion is that she is really sick or having really very dark intentions. What could we believe about someone don't needing and don't believing in non surgical options posting all the day in this section? And surely you think that it has not any importance the serious and unacceptable accusation to parents in this forum trusting in non surgical options, so I think you also are the same kind of person too. She should to be sentenced and is what should to happen if there are reasons to think that judicial system works!.
    She is only able to talk in the way you are talking to me, insulting, attacking in every possible way, never talking about scoliosis issues really, just only about certain lack of studies, is all what she can do.. and running to ask help to the moderator when I reply her what she deserves.
    So don't feel attacked if I talk with you as if I would be talking with her.

    Your post is almost unintelligible. Your English is great as far as it goes but you need to get it better to really effectively communicate.

    I am flattered that you 'confuse' me with Pooka1 but for the record I have not posted - 'I agree with pooka' unless it was in context of a specific point'. However she is logical and presents scientific evidence for what she says which you counter with emotional streams of invective.

    My problem with the Spinecor brace for adults is simple ( so that you can understand). It was invented by a surgeon which as an adult with surgery levels of Scoliosis interests me; It is not taken up by the surgeons in US or UK as an option because they could not make it work. I am sure you can drag up a whole load of people who will claim success with it BUT you have to evaluate what they deem success. At then end of the day a surgeon will say 'does it help the scoliosis? If it did so many adults would not be presenting themselves for surgery in the first place. Certainly surgeons in the UK turn adults away for surgery. They simply say it is a last resort. Certainly with me they say that yes I could have it but I might be swapping one pain for another and lose a whole lot of mobility. They do not offer me the brace though.

    And so the creepy chiros take Spinecor up- well they would- they have nothing to offer a scoliosis patient but they will take their money any way they can.

    You seem happy to think that surgeons are somehow 'out for money' but are blind to the chiros.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by burdle View Post
    At then end of the day a surgeon will say 'does it help the scoliosis? If it did so many adults would not be presenting themselves for surgery in the first place.
    This excellent point is actively ignored by many folks in this sandbox.

    The textbook case of ignoring the actual results is Schroth in Germany, invented by a lay person, around for over 90 years, studied by a capable and competent doctor/researcher (the inventor's grandson) for about 10 of those, about 30,000 patients over about 10 years, and STILL no evidence people are able to avoid surgery for life. The researcher abandoned it and is now bracing kids also. He "couldn't make it work."

    Schroth is still a fringe treatment in Germany and surgeries go on as usual. No decrease in surgery due to Schroth has ever been shown.

    Surgery should be a last resort and surgeons approach it that way. Surgery helped my daughters cut their losses which is huge. Normal is off the table. The best you can do at that point is cut losses. My daughters have their lives back. They would be house bound or dead without surgery. We had no choice. Maybe others do have a choice.

    I suspect people see my demands for evidence for conservative treatments as bitterness over my daughters needing surgery and bracing failing one of them. That is simply not true. What motivates me is the lying to kids and browbeating them to wear a brace or do PT where the evidence case for avoiding surgery for life is non-existent.

    One thing I am very bitter about is that my kids presented too soon before stapling or tethering was more established. I wish we had that option.

    The word needs an effective conservative treatment for scoliosis in kids and adults. Unfortunately, the world is still waiting.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 07-15-2016 at 08:09 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by burdle View Post
    Your post is almost unintelligible. Your English is great as far as it goes but you need to get it better to really effectively communicate.

    I am flattered that you 'confuse' me with Pooka1 but for the record I have not posted - 'I agree with pooka' unless it was in context of a specific point'. However she is logical and presents scientific evidence for what she says which you counter with emotional streams of invective.

    My problem with the Spinecor brace for adults is simple ( so that you can understand). It was invented by a surgeon which as an adult with surgery levels of Scoliosis interests me; It is not taken up by the surgeons in US or UK as an option because they could not make it work. I am sure you can drag up a whole load of people who will claim success with it BUT you have to evaluate what they deem success. At then end of the day a surgeon will say 'does it help the scoliosis? If it did so many adults would not be presenting themselves for surgery in the first place. Certainly surgeons in the UK turn adults away for surgery. They simply say it is a last resort. Certainly with me they say that yes I could have it but I might be swapping one pain for another and lose a whole lot of mobility. They do not offer me the brace though.

    And so the creepy chiros take Spinecor up- well they would- they have nothing to offer a scoliosis patient but they will take their money any way they can.

    You seem happy to think that surgeons are somehow 'out for money' but are blind to the chiros.
    Say me what you don't understand and I'll rewrite it in other way. Basically I said you that you seems to be a clone of Pooka1, certainly I'll talk to both of you, you (since this moment burdle and pooka1) seems to be here in order to convince people to take fusion. If it's not true in the case of Burdle, plaease quote some post showing it, I only see comments against Chiropractors (you also really seems to hate them) and Spinecor. You seems to don't read what I say even in this thread, I recommended you to ignore what Clear chiropractors says, because I don't like them too much since they don't understand why reduction in brace is necessary. But not every chiropractors belongs to Clear. If you think that SOSORT is something serious you should to know that a Chiropractor belonging to SOSORT is who 'invented' the Spinecor for adults, not one of Clear as I know.

    The only 2 recurrent arguments are that all surgeons are absolutely wise and honest and since they only recommends fuison, nothing else works. The other is that you may say that there is not a contundent studie showing a non surgical method working and since reality is for you what such kind of studies shows, then none of them works. You repeated these arguments thousands and thousands of times and will repeat them for ever or until a scoliosis cure for everyone arises or someone do something against your insane work here.

    'I suspect people see my demands for evidence for conservative treatments as bitterness over my daughters needing surgery and bracing failing one of them'.
    Yes, is what many people around the world thinks, but many others are sure that you are a troll receiving an important amount of money for doing your job here. I'm not at all sure about this, but certainly, if you think that maybe others do have a choice, why do you are doing this? Why are you trying that nobody can have a choice? Certainly what you said Is inconsistent with this ''What motivates me is the lying to kids and browbeating them to wear a brace or do PT where the evidence case for avoiding surgery for life is non-existent' How they could have a choice to avoid surgery if all non surgical is a lie as you are saying?
    Did you realize that also do not exists any evidence about people having fusion and a reasonably normal life for life?

    Is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR for all the world your desperate intention for aborting every thread here, your efforts to discourage everyone and convince them that only fusion works. It seems to be the only purpose of your life. If you would be a good and not insane person you would not try to lead people to fusion thinking that there is not other option. Only you know the true, why are you doing this but fortunately thousands of people thinking in non surgical options thinks that this is a prosurgical dark forum, and fortunately there are a lot of groups where you cannot do your pathetic and too much evident work (or job?). You have not arguments, just only those I mentioned, and of course people are not stupid and don't need you to repeating them millions of times and since they are not stupid, they do not thinks are proving that non surgical options don't works, as you wish they believe. And none moderator/administrator of those groups would protects you, so there is no way to having you there doing what you only can do here of course!.
    Last edited by flerc; 07-15-2016 at 03:17 PM.

  14. #44
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    This is irrational and emotional magical thinking. You are not following along nor do you seem to grasp relevant facts. It is abundantly clear that parents here would subject their children to treatments thinking they are avoiding surgery for life when there is no evidence for that. I don't think that is a good thing. You do. That is probably because you will never be the one who has to wear a brace or do PT or be scared into doing it.

    I think there are parents here who would pursue treatments with 1%, 0.1%, and even 0.01% chance of success. When the treatment is terrible, that is not rational.

    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Say me what you don't understand and I'll rewrite it in other way. Basically I said you that you seems to be a clone of Pooka1, certainly I'll talk to both of you, you (since this moment burdle and pooka1) seems to be here in order to convince people to take fusion. If it's not true in the case of Burdle, plaease quote some post showing it, I only see comments against Chiropractors (you also really seems to hate them) and Spinecor. You seems to don't read what I say even in this thread, I recommended you to ignore what Clear chiropractors says, because I don't like them too much since they don't understand why reduction in brace is necessary. But not every chiropractors belongs to Clear. If you think that SOSORT is something serious you should to know that a Chiropractor belonging to SOSORT is who 'invented' the Spinecor for adults, not one of Clear as I know.

    The only 2 recurrent arguments are that all surgeons are absolutely wise and honest and since they only recommends fuison, nothing else works. The other is that you may say that there is not a contundent studie showing a non surgical method working and since reality is for you what such kind of studies shows, then none of them works. You repeated these arguments thousands and thousands of times and will repeat them for ever or until a scoliosis cure for everyone arises or someone do something against your insane work here.

    'I suspect people see my demands for evidence for conservative treatments as bitterness over my daughters needing surgery and bracing failing one of them'.
    Yes, is what many people around the world thinks, but many others are sure that you are a troll receiving an important amount of money for doing your job here. I'm not at all sure about this, but certainly, if you think that maybe others do have a choice, why do you are doing this? Why are you trying that nobody can have a choice? Certainly what you said Is inconsistent with this ''What motivates me is the lying to kids and browbeating them to wear a brace or do PT where the evidence case for avoiding surgery for life is non-existent' How they could have a choice to avoid surgery if all non surgical is a lie as you are saying?
    Did you realize that also do not exists any evidence about people having fusion and a reasonably normal life for life?

    Is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR for all the world your desperate intention for aborting every thread here, your efforts to discourage everyone and convince them that only fusion works. It seems to be the only purpose of your life. If you would be a good and not insane person you would not try to lead people to fusion thinking that there is not other option. Only you know the true, why are you doing this but fortunately thousands of people thinking in non surgical options thinks that this is a prosurgical dark forum, and fortunately there are a lot of groups where you cannot do your pathetic and too much evident work (or job?). You have not arguments, just only those I mentioned, and of course people are not stupid and don't need you to repeating them millions of times and since they are not stupid, they do not thinks are proving that non surgical options don't works, as you wish they believe. And none moderator/administrator of those groups would protects you, so there is no way to having you there doing what you only can do here of course!.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #45
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    And probably you would never need to have fusion. Fusion is not terrible for you. Do you believe that really has any sense what you are saying or you are simply doing your job here?

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