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Thread: My Adult Scoliosis Story

  1. #136
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    The reason why you might see a lot of lay people acting like backyard experts might just correlate with the fact that our real so-called experts haven't found the answers to our condition.
    Your blaming patients for seeking answers when the so called specialists aren't actually specialists at all.
    How can you they call themselves scoliosis specialists, when none of them actually knows what causes scoliosis, how it really works and the whole treatment system is based on trial and error?
    If you cant see the reality of that, then you're living in fantasy land.

    If I was one of those shonky backyard experts I may have gotten in with people that may have tried to use my ideas to create treatments for profit.
    All I ever did was advocate that the research be done properly and to let that speak for itself.

    I'm not sure Linda has access to create forum categories, but the final point I want to make is that if you really cared about the integrity of the information on the research forum, why didn't you look for a solution to the problem?
    A really simple one would have been to split it into 2 categories "Proven Research" and "Unproven Research Ideas"

    There I just fixed your problem.

    You know what the difference between us is Sharon?
    You want to go around in circles, and I want to find solutions.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjmcphee View Post
    The reason why you might see a lot of lay people acting like backyard experts might just correlate with the fact that our real so-called experts haven't found the answers to our condition.
    Your blaming patients for seeking answers when the so called specialists aren't actually specialists at all.
    How can you they call themselves scoliosis specialists, when none of them actually knows what causes scoliosis, how it really works and the whole treatment system is based on trial and error?
    If you cant see the reality of that, then you're living in fantasy land.
    If experts trained in this field haven't figured it out, what chance do people with no training and no grasp of even the basics have of coming up with a solution? Isn't the answer zero chance?

    If I was one of those shonky backyard experts I may have gotten in with people that may have tried to use my ideas to create treatments for profit.
    All I ever did was advocate that the research be done properly and to let that speak for itself.
    You have no reason to suggest research is not now being done properly or as good as it gets. You only imagine that.

    I'm not sure Linda has access to create forum categories, but the final point I want to make is that if you really cared about the integrity of the information on the research forum, why didn't you look for a solution to the problem?
    A really simple one would have been to split it into 2 categories "Proven Research" and "Unproven Research Ideas"

    There I just fixed your problem.

    You know what the difference between us is Sharon?
    You want to go around in circles, and I want to find solutions.
    That wouldn't fix the problem because lay people like yourself who are convinced you are correct would just post in the proven research forum. Other lay people I could name would do the same. Hopeless.

    The difference between you and me is that I admit scoliosis isn't my field and I don't claim to understand even a fraction of what you claim to understand despite you having zero training, little grasp, no college level math and physics, no graduate level anatomy and physiology, etc. The field of biomechanics is written in a language you don't know yet you claim you are speaking it. That is a problem.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    If experts trained in this field haven't figured it out, what chance do people with no training and no grasp of even the basics have of coming up with a solution? Isn't the answer zero chance?
    One would reasonably assume so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    You have no reason to suggest research is not now being done properly or as good as it gets. You only imagine that.
    It's not imagined at all.
    I don't really fit into any existing scoliosis category and I don't have answers that correlate what I saw take place in my body with whats written in the literature, and I see no evidence of any attempt to do so.
    If what your saying was true I could ring up the scoliosis research department right now and say: "Hey.. Umm just wondering how that research is going? Should be ready on thursday and pick up anytime friday you say? Great. Talk to you then."
    If they fail to provide answers then people are naturally going to seek them out themselves.
    Don't hate the player, hate the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    That wouldn't fix the problem because lay people like yourself who are convinced you are correct would just post in the proven research forum. Other lay people I could name would do the same. Hopeless.
    People like myself? I can't believe you just said that.
    I may have a side to me where I seek clarification with regards to an area of scoliosis research, but I wouldn't have to do it if they did, and I wouldn't have to be in the position I'm in if patient organizations were more organized and liaised between researchers and patients when there was reason for clarification within the research. Do you get it?
    I don't post in the research forum anymore and I don't mislead anyone.

    Do you not think I hold the idea of the quality of scoliosis information on the internet with the highest regard and scrutiny?
    Why do you think I'm playing around with scoliosis websites?
    I want a scoliosis website that puts everything in its correct place.
    Do you think I intend to deliberately mislead people and give them false information?
    While you're making assumptions and accusations "people like me" already made the changes to my own demo site before you even replied. 2 Research Categories
    And why the hell wouldn't I use such a feature after everything I go through with you?
    Why do you think I called this thread My Adult Scoliosis Story?
    So I wouldn't have to deal with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    The difference between you and me is that I admit scoliosis isn't my field and I don't claim to understand even a fraction of what you claim to understand despite you having zero training, little grasp, no college level math and physics, no graduate level anatomy and physiology, etc. The field of biomechanics is written in a language you don't know yet you claim you are speaking it. That is a problem.
    No the difference between you and me is that you don't have scoliosis, that's the REAL problem.
    And I might suggest that if you were in my body you may be observing and saying the same things I am.

    Linda can you tell this woman to get out of my face and off my thread before I do?
    I'm not going to be continually disrespected or spoken down to on a patient forum by someone who doesn't even have scoliosis.
    LAST CHANCE SHARON.

  4. #139
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    Scott,
    If Sharon bothers you that much, you can block her so that you don't see her posts. She can still post but it will come up post blocked and you don't have to read it. I'm not encouraging you to block her as I think she is truly trying to help you understand some things. She gets just as frustrated as you do. Just because she herself doesn't have scoliosis doesn't mean she doesn't know a heap. She is a Ph.D. researcher in another field and has two daughters who've had corrective surgery for scoliosis. Since she is a legitimate researcher herself, she knows how to read scientific literature. She's familiarized herself with the terms used in biology and anatomy in doing research for her own daughters. Don't discount her for not being a biologist. I think she has good intentions as do you. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt for good intentions (almost).

    You never responded to my post and chose to engage in debate with Sharon. Do you really care what I have to say in response to you or are you liking the drama? You say you don't like the arguing and that you'll stop, but you continue. I keep waiting... :-(

    I looked at your scoliosis curve patterns web page and there are four identical pictures with four different curve patterns posted below them. There are more than four curve patterns.

    Like I said before, you DO fit a typical curve pattern. I truly do NOT. I've seen many surgeons and NONE have seen a curve pattern like mine thus far.

    Your curve pattern would be a typical right thoracic curve, the most common type. Throw in the LLD and you have a little bit of a lumbar curve making it a thoracolumbar curve. IF Sharon is right and a curve bends down to below 25o, then a bending x-ray wouldn't even apply to you since your curve isn't that big as far as we know to this date. It may have progressed. I think the purpose of bending x-rays is to see how flexible the curves are before surgery so that the surgeon kind of knows what s/he's getting into before the big operation. I can't see much use for it other than that. Whether it's structural or functional has no bearing on the fact that the person still has scoliosis. I think it may impact the treatment that they get... just my honest guess. Hysterical scoliosis is another mystery in and of itself and VERY rare as far as I know. This, I doubt, would fit your case. I don't understand why you think that you don't have a typical curve pattern. Can you explain why you think this?

    Like I said in my other post, you have a curve very similar to my daughter's. The degree of curvature is about the same and to my very diligent observation of my kids as they grew up (I'd check for rib humps throughout the year), I can't see a rib hump in her back even though I KNOW she has scoliosis. It's either not large enough to cause rotation or there are curves with little to no rotation.

    It's kind of strange, though, because physically when the spine is bent it has to rotate a little. I've messed around with the hanging skeletons at the colleges and doctor's offices. My best guess is that the lateral curve just isn't large enough to rotate the spine to a degree that can be seen by the naked or laymen's eye. I didn't see a rib hump in your box picture. Although, I wish you would post a proper bending picture with both arms hanging toward your toes and head down. But looking at your coronal x-rays you can see those little vertical lines centered in each vertebra. Those are your spinous processes. Yours appear to be dead center or nearly so. The farther off they are from center, the more rotation there is.

    I'm going to have to post my updated x-rays from last year so everyone can see how much progression there is. But even with the ones I have posted, look at those little vertical lines in the vertebrae and you can see the rotation. You will also see a curve pattern that doesn't fit any classification. ;-) It goes into my cervical area. Yikes!

    I'm truly perplexed why you think your right thoracic curve isn't typical...??? If you didn't have the slight lumbar curve from your LLD, you and my daughter's curves would be almost identical.

    Oddly enough I have a slight LLD, too. It doesn't seem to affect my lumbar at all. But it was my PCP measuring with a tape measure and not x-rays of my legs. That's one thing that has never been x-rayed on me!

    Have a good day,
    Rohrer01

    P.S. There is a place on this forum where you can get to know one another. It's called PM. THIS forum wants to keep clear of clutter having nothing to do with scoliosis. Could you imagine trying to moderate people's debates on countless other topics?! You have to keep things civil and clean. So that would be nearly impossible.
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjmcphee View Post
    One would reasonably assume so.
    Yet you were going on and on about the necessity of lay people stepping in to remedy some shortfall that you imagine exists but which doesn't actually exist outside of your imagination.


    I don't really fit into any existing scoliosis category and I don't have answers that correlate what I saw take place in my body with whats written in the literature, and I see no evidence of any attempt to do so.
    You have no basis to claim that. You merely claim you don't fit in an existing category because you don't understand the categories and don't realize you are a textbook case for a known category. You can't expect researchers to explain a condition that exists only in your imagination. You think there is an association between your neck/should injury and your pre-existing scoliosis that was discovered as an incidental finding. I think you got wigged out when they found that small curve and decided it must have something to do with your neck shoulder injury and decided you are in some unknown category because of that. But that is just in your imagination.

    Do you not think I hold the idea of the quality of scoliosis information on the internet with the highest regard and scrutiny?
    I think you hold that idea. What I doubt is your ability to distinguish between quality and sub-par information based on what you have written. You don't appear to understand this material.


    No the difference between you and me is that you don't have scoliosis, that's the REAL problem.
    This comment is irrational. Your subjective feelings about scoliosis are leading you away from the facts, not the other way around. For example, you think you feel minute positional changes of individual vertebrae that are too small to show up on radiograph. If Olympic riders need mirrors to help them know the position of their body parts, there is little chance you are feeling what you claim to feel.

    LAST CHANCE SHARON.
    This comment is irrational.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 02-07-2016 at 03:05 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #141
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    Yes, she does and I don't think blocking her is acceptable.
    If I feel that if I'm being constantly harassed by another member who doesnt even have scoliosis and I request that she no longer posts on my thread, then in what context do others think it is ok for her to continue to do so if I'm feeling harassed by it?
    Its not enough to block her, she should respect my wishes.
    And I don't care what qualifications she has, I don't care if she won the Nobel prize.
    Its her behavior that is simply not working for me, whether she has good intentions or not.
    I don't think she realises the stress it causes me, her doing what shes doing.

    I did see that you wrote a post a little ways back that I might have missed and I know I havent responded to others yet and I am feeling a little guilty about it, but I did try to go through and respond to a bigger post you wrote yesterday, I'm not sure what I didn't respond to but please don't think I'm liking the drama more than I appreciate other peoples reponses because I most certainly aren't and I'll have more to say on that soon.


    I'm so glad you brought up my web page (takes my mind off the rest of things)
    And yes I'm well aware of your criticisms.
    If you look up the top, you'll see a link that goes to a research document that discusses 4 different types of classification systems, Ponseti, King, Lenke and Peking Union Medical College. Then theres a seperate link to the Lenke's webpage and his system. The images themselves are misleading, because they are just placeholders for the proper images later.
    Its the only good-looking scoliosis image I have, I can get more from the guy who made it but they aren't cheap. Just as important, and what you don't see going on is that I stole the code from other existing pages on the template demo the site is built from to create that 'Learning Page' and the block of images all aligned neatly on that 'Curve Patterns' page. I do this for several reasons, one it helps in the design process of the page, two it helps me to know the image assets I will need and three I have the code already in place for when I add more content, and in general every time I create a page its good practice. I think I like web design more than modelling, because I'm better at it, but both can be pretty frustrating when you get stuck on something.
    What I havent done, and what I really need to do is to post a 'Disclaimer' at the top of every page saying the site is a demo that people shouldn't rely on any information on the site and that if they believe they have scoliosis or need assistance they should seek professional medical advice. As well as list the srs and this forum as online resources.
    The site has actually existed with the forum built into it since 2013, I originally built it as a site that would display scoliosis videos organised into categories, and maybe I was just testing the Kunena forum. But the extension I was using to display the videos was glitchy, and it didnt look good, I didnt find a solution for it so I never got it finished.
    It was the same when I was building the news site. I had rss news feeds pulling in scoliosis news stories and displaying them, literally hundreds of them, but that extention was also glitchy. Sometimes it would duplicate items, and I had trouble pulling in and dislaying related images and intro text for each news item. I was able to get a list of latest news stories that would act as links, but that was the best I could do and it wasnt enough to base and entire website around so I never finished that one either. Not even sure I can build that one anymore as google has stopped making rss links to its searches, but I might actually still have the feed links, though I'm not sure they'll work anymore.

    I've always been lead to believe that I had a thoracolumbar curve, but I did notice that I actually had a thoracic instead the other day when I was going through dictionary terms, and it said the apex of the curve needed to be at T12/L1 for a thoracolumbar determination.

    I don't doubt that you have a unique curve pattern, and I'm not saying that mine is.
    What is unique about me is my claim to understand the biomechanics of my curve pattern.
    I know im right but I dont know where or how it all fits into the bigger picture.

    Saying I have a typical curve pattern makes me consider the possibility that what I allege has occurred in my curve pattern also happens in others, but I don't know.

    Your explanation of bending xrays was helpful, thanks.

    What is the go with Hysterical scoliosis?
    Is that where I think my scoliosis is progressing and its not?
    Like a mental disorder (that you all think I have)
    Whats the go with that?
    Out of curiosity is there any common factor to whatever these people are thinking?

    I dont dispute Sharons or anyone elses medical diagnosis of my situation as being unwarranted, but honestly none of the doctors specialists or researchers found any answers for me so even if shes on the mark she's no better than them and still hasn't got any real answers for me.

    She could be the President of the SRS for all I care, I've spoken to several of them, but they too have no answers for me.

    Thanks for sharing about your daughter.
    I think one of the hardest aspects of this condition is the one where you girls have to endure the scoliosis yourself but then you have to see your kids endure it too, and I'm sure thats a hard thing to live with. Thankfully her curves are not too great. I think it must be heartbreaking for a parent who has scoliosis to see their kids go through it as well (and all the feelings associated with it). Thats not saying that mums like Sharon don't go through a lot too, I'm sure its almost as tough for them as well.

    It's kind of strange, though, because physically when the spine is bent it has to rotate a little. I've messed around with the hanging skeletons at the colleges and doctor's offices. My best guess is that the lateral curve just isn't large enough to rotate the spine to a degree that can be seen by the naked or laymen's eye.

    Now you're talking Rohrer... now you've got my attention.
    I don't see any decisive evidence of what I feel occuring in my spine in xrays.
    But I'm 100% sure its there. In fact I'm not sure, I know, and I know that damn lordotic element is there.
    And I'm going to write something soon for you all to read, it will be called "Why the presumption of propreoception in my scolisois is irrational". It's going to be a counter-argument to Sharons statement (and everyone elses assumption) about the reasonable assumption that I must be wrong and thats its irrational to think I might be right.

    No there was no rib hump during the time that image was taken, its only now that I think I'm possibly going through the initial stages of this development as well as spinal rotation.

    I was actually wanting to make more photos and videos.
    I'd be happy to do it, but I'm having some issues doing this.
    I could get friends to take a couple of shots or use my camera tripod.
    The problem is I can't find my damn camera anywhere havent seen it for ages and my phone wont go on the tripod.
    (because its one of these ones that screw into the camera from underneath.)

    I might come off as a person who just wants to go around in circles but this isnt the case.
    The first thing I did yesterday after I'd made arrangements to see me stepmum about my scoliosis was go and investigate.
    I went down and saw my friend and neighbour Donna and got her to feel my spine.
    Shes like 'ahh' and I'm like "Yes I have a curvature in my spine called scoliosis" dont worry about that, I want you to try to feel something specifically. Then I showed her pics of a normal spine and natural curves on the internet and that I was looking to see if she could feel this element of lordosis around T6 and this is what happened:

    The first thing that was immediately obvious to me is that other people cant feel it as well as I can.
    I've been feeling around for the last day or so and so I have an idea of whats going on in there and I can feel it all straight away.
    I reached around with my left arm and put my thumb right in the place where I feel the lordotic element in thoracic.
    I even got her to get a pen and mark the exact point, I wish I'd taken a photo.
    She was feeling around but I could tell that she wasn't able to feel it as distictly as I can feel it.
    Then she said "I felt something just for a second, it feels like theres something wrong.. [and made a twisting motion] like its not sitting on the next one properly" So I made her feel it again. and guided her finger right to the exact spot and just for a second she said she felt it again.

    Its hard for me to know what she felt, I'm not convinced that she definately felt a lordotic element (and shes no back expert) but I am reasonably convinced that she could feel that something was structurally wrong but I'm not sure thats enough to mean anything.

    I would like to have a look at what rotation looks like in xrays.
    All I know about it is that you can tell the level of rotation by the pedicles.

    I don't necessarily think my curve pattern isnt typical, but if I dont entertain the idea that my scoliosis is different to others then by default I must also entertain the idea that I understand how other peoples scoliosis works and that I may have info that would surely help them.

    I've never had my legs xrayed either.

  7. #142
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    Extract of feces,
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Yet you were going on and on about the necessity of lay people stepping in to remedy some shortfall that you imagine exists but which doesn't actually exist outside of your imagination.
    When have I said that? Your making it up and once again your insulting me so go fck yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    You have no basis to claim that. You merely claim you don't fit in an existing category because you don't understand the categories and don't realize you are a textbook case for a known category. You can't expect researchers to explain a condition that exists only in your imagination. You think there is an association between your neck/should injury and your pre-existing scoliosis that was discovered as an incidental finding. I think you got wigged out when they found that small curve and decided it must have something to do with your neck shoulder injury and decided you are in some unknown category because of that. But that is just in your imagination.
    I can claim anything I want. I could claim that aliens abducted me and injected my spine with rubber and its got nothing to do with you.
    State the facts state your position if you feel you need to, then shut your piehole.
    If I am a textbook case as you see it, then maybe you should start seriously looking at the logic that I've put forward that I do know how my scoliosis works instead of trying to justify that I must be wrong simply because its the only thing that your tiny minute brain can rationally make sense to you. I'm not saying that whats occurring with my scoliosis is the same as everyone else's but I will say that not one single one of you would actually know a valid explanation from an invalid one if it slapped you in the face.
    I think in this sense the benefits of me being right far outweigh any cost of If I'm wrong.
    Tell me whats the cost of being wrong? not that I am.
    An no you moron, I didn't get wigged out when I found out I had scoliosis, I got wigged out 2 weeks before that when I had the injury that stated the instability the followed a system.
    You insulted me two more time please refer back to line 2.

    Obviously you think you have the right to insult me with immunity even after I've asked you not to post, reported you to the moderator and made my case that if I respectfully ask you not to post that you should respect my wishes.
    So your just an argumentative so and so but I'm sure you've been called that and more many times. - Refer back to line 2

    Oh and by the way since I've reported you and got no response, I can't be sure that Linda wants me to stick my head in a noose so I will get banned so for integrity sake fck = frick.

    Here's a question for you Sharon if you think you're so damn smart.
    If altered biomechanics occurs in AIS, then either it was always that way or it had to start somehow.
    How does it start? What have you got of value to bring to the table?
    You couldn't even come up with a half decent hypothesis yourself let alone claim to have the intelligence to judge others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    I think you hold that idea. What I doubt is your ability to distinguish between quality and sub-par information based on what you have written. You don't appear to understand this material.
    Well, Thanks you for believing AT LEAST in my integrity, its the nicest thing you've ever said.
    (Mind you its the first anyones mentioned my site except Rohrer, and I'm making a note that technically you're still criticizing me Sharon. Whats new... You could've helped but no... Start crap instead.. That's who you are.. )
    And I'm not going to argue with you on that point. I don't know the material well.
    I've never lied to any of you any I'm not planning to. Its not who I am.
    But I don't see any of you people making an effort and this site hasn't had an upgrade since facebook was invented.
    I'm only filling a gap that has been created by others incompetence and I'll probably give up anyway so who even cares?
    How many people have been lead astray by shonks because none of you guys will support the idea of getting scoliosis's act together on the internet?
    How many years have I been saying it?
    BAD THINGS HAPPEN WHEN GOOD PEOPLE DO NOTHING.
    How much has been wasted because you wont do this and leverage professional fundraising?
    And how many other members have the guts to admit that I'm right?
    None because your all scared you might be seen supporting the crazy one.
    PATHETIC, SELF INFLATED VALUE YOU PEOPLE HAVE OF YOURSELVES.
    You wont even admit it even when I am right.

    Who the hell are you that's so special to say I'm wrong?
    Who the hell am I?

    What are you so concerned about?
    Spending a few dollars on scoliosis research that you make from profession fundraising?
    This things bigger than all of us why don't we work together and get all our answers?
    Don't you have any integrity of your own?
    Don't you have anything worthwhile of your own to support or is all you've got ''the right to challenge and start crap with patients'?

    And part of the reason I'm doing it because of my own situation, in case none of you people can have the intelligence to see that.
    If another person like me came along I'd like to see them supported and given due diligence, not be left out in the wilderness forever.
    Is it wrong to want that you selfish people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Your subjective feelings about scoliosis are leading you away from the facts, not the other way around.
    For example, you think you feel minute positional changes of individual vertebrae that are too small to show up on radiograph.
    If Olympic riders need mirrors to help them know the position of their body parts, there is little chance you are feeling what you claim to feel.
    No that's just what you believe and it's leading you away from the facts.
    Stop coming up with dumb metaphors to justify your backwards thinking.
    Facts that none of us will ever get to because of you influence others here with your close-minded attitude.
    It wasn't irrational at all. How can you claim to know my body better than me?
    You're making the claim that in your mind what I'm putting forward must be irrational because you just decided it must be, not on the basis that you actually KNOW or have tested one thing I've put forward TO KNOW for certain that its not.

    Why did you name yourself after a turd? I think its fitting.
    You want to keep insulting me by saying its my imagination when you DO NOT KNOW FOR CERTAIN, then it requires a equally measured response.
    Go to line 2.
    Last edited by sjmcphee; 02-07-2016 at 10:04 PM.

  8. #143
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    I don't even care if I get banned anymore anyway, Sharons bs outweighs any support I get anyway, so you'd probably be doing me a favor.
    Actually its not fair to say that. Sharons bs makes it impossible for me to concentrate on talking to others. (So I'm sorry to those I never got time to talk to.)
    I think that's her actual problem, she doesnt want me talking to anyone else lest they start thinking crazy things like me.

    The part I don't get is that an actual patient comes forward, says they see a system of altered biomechanics working beneath what can be seen in an xray, and you'd all rather listen to some know it all parent then support your own.
    Even if I am right about others, (and I'm not convinced I am) none of you has done anything to support me in getting those answers, and you don't deserve them.

    One day the computer technology will make testing my research quite easy.
    The truth will come out sooner or later.

    Listen to Sharon and it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong.
    None of you will ever see it, and if you ever do you may find out I was right after all.
    Last edited by sjmcphee; 02-07-2016 at 08:12 PM.

  9. #144
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    I'm not even going to bother wasting my time here anymore, none of you believe me anyway, and its like a rape victim going to a rape support group and being called a liar.
    I can't stay, there's nothing for me here. Sharon's forced me to leave more times than I can ever remember.

    Its really kind of stupid since even Doug Keister a surgeon and researcher with way more qualifications than Sharon even himself says that he doesn't think I'm lying.
    I don't need to put up with this from someone who doesn't even have scoliosis.

    Couldn't even tell my story without that cow butting in every 5 minutes with a million questions designed to stop me from sharing me story or talking with anyone else.
    You can all keep her, you deserve her.
    Its like the blind leading the blind.

    If any of you can try to put witnessing concaves on top of convexes turning into convexes on top of concaves controlled by 4 sets of 4 vectors with equal angles configured into the spines natural movements (which makes my claim to be able to see and understand the loading at every level at least hypothetically valid) in a broken system whilst understanding the relationship between the physical forces in the spinal column and you put all this down to proprioception, whilst knowing damn well that I know how the spinal column normally functions then I'm sorry but its all of you who are being irrational. It's you that are entertaining 'absurdity' by calling propreception when actually in light of the above information, its actually the less-likely answer.

    All things considered the simplest and most logical answer tends to be the right one.
    Entertaining the idea of proprioception, no matter how logical it seems is actually the least likely answer when taken in the above context.

    I understand that it may seem irrational that a patient figured out something the experts didn't, and I agreed with this statement, but that in itself is not enough to simply decide I must be wrong.
    In the full context of what I put forward its irrational to call 'propreoception' and I think part of you all know it but are too weak minded to admit it.

    Oh and tell me what do I have to gain by sharing this knowledge of mine with you?
    Do you think I can reverse 17years of bad loading in my spinal column? No
    There's no benefit to me whatsoever except proving I was right.
    - Thanks for the support.

    Just think of the good I might have done if you people had've supported me IN ANYTHING.
    Stupid upside-down world.

    Putting up with the bs I get here I'll need a new support group just from having to deal with Sharon.
    Good luck getting your answers, just stick with the scoliscore and the scoliosis traction chair and your useless bracing studies and I'm sure you'll all be fine.
    I'm sure the trial and error treatment system has worked well for everyone and trust theirs no complaints...
    Best of luck
    Last edited by sjmcphee; 02-07-2016 at 09:32 PM.

  10. #145
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,755
    Wow, Scott.

    That was a very angry set of statements AND I took the time to read them. I feel like you are lumping everyone into the category of you hating Sharon. I guess I haven't read enough of this thread to see how mean she's actually been. But it hurts to all be lumped into one category of "Sharon".

    You and I have had some progressive dialogue, I thought. You reverted back to your vector statements and lordosis within kyphosis and vice versa. I "think" what you are feeling there may either be where the curves meet. That will cause some flattening of the spine. Also, what I mean by saying you have a thoracolumbar curve is misleading you. I mean a small DOUBLE thoracolumbar curve, one in the thoracic region and another in the lumbar region...each having the apex in the opposite direction. Your lumbar would be a LEFT curve and your thoracic curve would be a RIGHT curve. Another thing you could ask your doctor is if you have any minor Spina Bifida Occultas on any of your thoracic vertebrae. My son has a couple and it feels like his back sinks in because he is missing his spinous processes on two vertebrae. That might be what you are trying to describe. I was told that about 10% of the population has Spina Bifida Occulta. It's generally harmless and is found as incidental findings on x-rays. You could also have developed a spondolysthesis in one of your vertebras. That's a shifting of the vertebra out of alignment of the rest of the spinal column. Although I think that would be a rare shot in the dark as these usually occur in the lumbar if my layperson's brain serves me well. These are all questions for the doctor.

    I really think you owe RAPE victims an apology for that statement. Being contradicted on a scoliosis idea is NOT the same as being raped and going to a rape counseling group and not being believed. You should strike that if you have any conscience unless you are a rape victim. I take offense to that.

    As far as the other venting, I'm hoping you aren't aiming that at me as I have tried to be nothing but supportive and helpful. Many scoliosis sufferers DO have problems with proprioception. That has NOTHING to do with feeling your spine move. Proprioception is feeling like a body part is sitting somewhere other than where it actually is, or not knowing where the body part is in space and time. That's why I can't dance! I have horrible proprioception.

    If you want to see rotation, go look at my x-rays. They are in my thread "I have some imaging CD's". Look at the spinous processes and not the facet joints. They look like little vertical lines within the vertebral body on x-ray. If they are off center, that is rotation.

    I will continue to talk with you as long as you are civil to me. I really felt attacked right along with Sharon because you lumped ALL of us together. Sharon and I have had our differences and worked them out via PM. I'm pretty sure I know where she's coming from and it angers people when I try to explain what I think she's trying to convey. She's tamed down a lot. Try to take what information you think is useful and ignore what you think is irrelevant. Blocking is a tool so you don't have to see replies from people who provoke you. Use it and save yourself the frustration of typing lengthy angry posts.

    Try to have a better day,
    Rohrer01
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  11. #146
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    147
    I'm not mad at you Rohrer, I'm greatful and appreciate that you gave me your time and treated me respectfully...
    I haven't read all your comment but I will, though I'm not much in the mood for talking right now.

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