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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    237

    Scolismart

    Hi,

    I am in UK and we don't have Scolismart Clinics. I was wondering what you guys think of this company. There are many people on Facebook who seems to swear by the bootcamp that they offer.

    I myself got banned from the Facebook group 'Scoliosis warriors' (along with many others) because I challenged the organiser (C Stitzel) who seems to be one of the main people behind Scolismart for published studies and also probed more deeply into some of his claims.

    Nevertheless I can't deny that his aim is good- to find a better way of treatment etc. And I can't help feeling that more guidance needs to be given by the professional bodies ( SAUK, NSF) as to whether Scolismart can actually reduce curves etc.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    ny
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    1,809
    All I will say is that just because people "swear by" something, that doesn't mean anything. You don't even know who those people are or anything about them or their situation. Or if they are actual patients - they could even be plants. I would also be very wary of anyone who boots you from their group because you are probing their claims.
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

    http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

  3. #3
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    Sep 2011
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    They are real people it is a flourishing Facebook group. Most of the people who use the bootcamp are parents of children with Scoliosis. He does have a lot of adults post surgery with problems who are big supporters and post a lot of support for him. Facebook seems to be taking over from forums such as NSF and the UK Scoliosis support.org. There groups are flourishing so I think it is vitally important that we are all aware.

    I actually think he is onto something as I do agree that scoliosis is very much to do with the neuro transmitters etc. and I think it is time that patients were offered co-ordinated, joined up help and not just left if surgery is not an option. I don't think it is a scam by any means as the organisation is too big, but I do think that the medical profession should get involved.

  4. #4
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    ny
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    I'm not necessarily saying it's a scam, and maybe his method can work for very small curves, I don't know, but I do know that I see red flags. That group is one of the many scoliosis forums that I am part of because I'm always looking for families I can help by sharing my experiences, as well as any knowledge that I've accumulated over the years. I have seen folks receive advice from the founder that I don't agree with. I'm not a doctor but have learned quite a bit over the past 10-12 years about scoliosis in children. I've heard the founder tell parents of children with curves in the 60-70 degree range that he can correct it with exercise at his boot camp (which is quite expensive - although that in and of itself doesn't mean anything). But there is no way he is going to permanently correct a 65 degree curve - only surgery can do that unfortunately.

    This is strictly my opinion - please know this is all meant to be helpful, not confrontational :-)
    Last edited by mariaf; 10-26-2015 at 12:04 PM.
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

    http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
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    8,901
    Quote Originally Posted by burdle View Post
    HNevertheless I can't deny that his aim is good- to find a better way of treatment etc.
    Hi Burdle,

    It is fine and dandy to want to find a better way but it is reprehensible, unconscionable, despicable, etc. to CHARGE people for experimenting on them until they find that better way. And they are charging A LOT from what I hear.

    Stitzel and company are chiropracters, not medical doctors. You are in the UK where chiros are not allowed to use the "Dr." title but unfortunately they are allowed to use that title here. You can find chiros using the "Dr." title on their webs sites and NOWHERE do they admit they are only chiros. They are deliberately misleading people into thinking they are medical doctors. They are not trained to deal with scoliosis. They are lay people. There is no evidence chiro helps with scoliosis.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    237
    I am with you about the doctor/chiro bit- I am not a novice at this... I have since re-joined the group under a different name - that's how strongly I feel about challenging him.


    BUT it seems in the US that a lot of medicine is charged for- the model is slightly different in the UK


    The current model of wait and see if the curve progresses is not brilliant. The cause of the curve does need looking into and I do feel that patients should have a proper health path to follow.

    In UK we are just left to wait and see with the option of bracing if not fully grown. I do think that something a long the lines of what he is offering should be available - if only as a means of keeping muscle tone and pain relief. But again the medical community needs to act- either publicly discredit what Scolismart are doing or look more closely and actually see if there is anything in looking at the neuro-transmitters etc. It's just this silence that frustrates me while as you say people may be being exploited.

    People in pain are not the best people to be asked to weigh up all the options and evidence.
    Last edited by burdle; 10-27-2015 at 06:26 AM.

  7. #7
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    Burdle I agree with what you are saying. Of course you are right.

    The problem is that IS is almost an orphan disease. I was told there are only three research groups worldwide studying the etiology. That sounds orphan to me!!! There are at least 6 etiologies that are being studied and neuro is one of them. Chiros like neuro not because they think it is the best explanation of the etiology but because they think chiro can address that etiology. But chiro is not a science and can't address any etiology.

    https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...-chiropractic/

    1. Chiropractic is a science. NO
    2. Chiropractic is based on neurology, anatomy and physiology. NO
    3. Chiropractors are doctors of the nervous system. NO
    4. Chiropractic improves health and quality of life. NO

    If the etiology of IS is neuro we will learn that from the PhD/MD researchers trained in science, not from lay people like chiros.

    Surgeons are limited to studying various treatments and many have active publishing careers. They mainly report on the efficacy of bracing and various surgical techniques. A few PhD and MD researchers study PT and such. Weiss, an MD, studied Schroth for 10 years and 30,000+ patients but couldn't show it worked to avoid surgery. He has dozens and dozens of papers and I think it is obvious he knows how to do research and publish it. If it worked he would have shown it.

    Chiros have the lowest GPA of any of the allied medical professions (podiatry, etc.) and the quality of education they get in chiro chollege has been documented as piss-poor. These people, as a general rule, would not otherwise have a chance in hell of getting into medical school. They are not trained in research which explains why all their various schemes (Clear, Scolismart, boot camp, etc.) never adn will never produce evidence of efficacy. It makes my skin crawl that they treat children, use radiology, charge money, etc. etc. They are lay people when it comes to almost everything and especially when it comes to scoliosis.

    http://www.rebuildyourback.com/chiro...c/students.php
    Last edited by Pooka1; 10-27-2015 at 09:35 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,901
    The CLEAR chiros now have a surgical forum on their site. This is truly the blind leading the blind leading the scared.

    They are approaching the literature in a lay fashion which of course is in keeping with them not being trained in research and it shows. They constantly comparing surgery against a normal background (no scoliosis) instead of surgery against non-normal (untreated scoliosis). This is a rookie LAY mistake.

    Chiros have no business discussing surgical treatments FULL STOP. Where do you get that kind of nerve? Can you buy it?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    237
    Thanks Pooka


    The surgical approach they are cosying up to is VBS (VBT). It seems that they encourage you to do a bootcamp and then if not successful pass you to a VBT clinic- This at least employs genuine surgeons - but I don't understand why the VBS guys allow them to be associated with Scolismart. Why don't they expose it?

    The way they get people is by frightening people about fusion surgery. I am sure that they are correct in that it should be avoided at all costs if possible, but Scolismart refuse to actually admit that any solution or path they have can ONLY be suitable for children. It cannot work for adults and VBS is not for adults.

    when I challenge him on this - Stitzel keeps saying that they are working on an adult program as well...

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