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Thread: ? MRI...are they allowed after fusion?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    254

    ? MRI...are they allowed after fusion?

    Hi all,

    It has been years since I have visited this site. I had my surgery 8+ years ago and I am doing great with my back. I have a couple of questions that I am having a hard time finding good answers to, can anyone help me.

    1. I have Stainless Steel rods from T3 to L4 am I allowed to get an MRI on my breast? I thought the surgeon had said MRI's are OK but they may have feedback so maybe not clear. I will have my OBGYN check with my surgeon at the next appointment I am just looking for an idea.

    2. When I was a child having all the scoliosis x-rays from 76 to 81, what are the chances that shields were used on my breasts? I do not remember ever having them covered. I do remember the DR's telling my parents I had more x-rays done than anyone should have in a lifetime but who knows why that was said. How dangerous were x-rays during that time?

    I am trying to see my risk % for breast cancer, I have a bad family history of it with 2 sisters and my mother,(mother and 1 sister passed away from BC and the other sister had Mammo and US all clear, no lump that they could feel, but had has yearly MRI's and they found the cancer then) I also have dense breast, and I am worried about all the x-rays as a child. Recent Mammo and US are not showing lumps that my Dr and others can clearly feel, and we need to decide what to do. Do i wait and see, attempt a MRI, or get a surgical biopsy? I really don't want another surgery and am hoping they can do the MRI.

    Thanks for your thoughts on the MRI and X-rays.
    Patty 51 years old
    Surgery May 23, 2007(43 Birthday)
    Posterior T3- L4
    Pre surgery curves
    T-53degrees
    L-38degrees
    and a severe side shift to the right.
    Post surgery curves
    Less than 10 degrees
    Surgery April, 2006
    C4 - C6

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    east coast
    Posts
    359
    MRIS are ok. I actually had one 6 weeks after surgery.

    Stainless steel will cause more noise and artifacts Compared To Titanium. (Artifacts and noise are )basically distortions that makes it hard to see area around the spine) but for you if it's a breast MRI the hardware won't matter.

    I have three titanium rods with cobalt chrome screws aND had no problems getting MRIs done at three different hospitals.
    30 something y.o.

    2003 - T45, L???
    2005 - T50, L31
    bunch of measurements between...

    2011 - T60, L32
    2013 - T68, L?

    Posterior Fusion Sept 2014 -- T3 - L3
    Post - op curve ~35



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Southern CA
    Posts
    2,224
    MRI's are fine. You should have no problem.

    Hope you get the news you want

    Melissa
    Melissa

    Fused from C2 - sacrum 7/2011

    December 8, 2014 - Another Broken Rod Surgery

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    254
    Thank you both, that actually is a huge relief, I thought it would be okay, and I will still have my Dr. check with the surgeon but at least for now I can breath a little easier.

    I am still curious on the X-rays done in the mid to late 70's and how much radiation exposure there was.
    Patty 51 years old
    Surgery May 23, 2007(43 Birthday)
    Posterior T3- L4
    Pre surgery curves
    T-53degrees
    L-38degrees
    and a severe side shift to the right.
    Post surgery curves
    Less than 10 degrees
    Surgery April, 2006
    C4 - C6

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    reno,nevada
    Posts
    3,531
    Patti

    I hope this helps answer your question about x-rays and their effects on us.....I've been nuked through the years, and I'm still here.


    Radiation Hazards: General

    I have gotten the impression that little is known about the effects of radiation, other than that it is very dangerous. Is this true?

    This is untrue. We probably know more about radiation than any other cancer-producing agent (carcinogen), physical or chemical. Experience goes back about 80 years and the information is probably better documented than that for any other carcinogen. Radiation is, in fact, a relatively weak carcinogen and mutagen.

    It is sometimes suggested that if a person is exposed to radiation he/she will develop cancer or at the least is likely to. Is this true?

    This is untrue. Radiation is not very effective in causing cancer and even in large populations exposed to high doses of radiation the increase over the normal cancer rate is small. For instance, follow-up studies (through 1978) of 82,000 exposed Japanese A-bomb survivors have produced an estimated 250 radiation-induced cancers.

    Can the radiation exposure associated with a diagnostic radiologic procedure be more dangerous than the associated illness?

    This is almost always untrue. For individual patients undergoing radiologic procedures related to illness, the benefits of the procedure far outweigh the risks.


    http://ehs.columbia.edu/RadiationQ&AMC.html

    Ed
    Last edited by titaniumed; 06-28-2015 at 09:00 AM.
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    6,793
    Last edited by LindaRacine; 06-28-2015 at 11:21 AM.
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  7. #7
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    Linda

    In the conclusion of the last study, they mention that the cancer risks can be reduced from 1/2 to 3/4 if the x-rays are shot from the back.

    Why do surgeons shoot x-rays from the front? Is is because they figure if the patient is a surgical candidate that the amount of radiation doesn’t matter much compared to the high doses emitted during scoliosis surgery?


    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    Linda

    In the conclusion of the last study, they mention that the cancer risks can be reduced from 1/2 to 3/4 if the x-rays are shot from the back.

    Why do surgeons shoot x-rays from the front? Is is because they figure if the patient is a surgical candidate that the amount of radiation doesn’t matter much compared to the high doses emitted during scoliosis surgery?


    Ed
    Hi Ed...

    I don't know. We take all xrays from the back.

    --Linda
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  9. #9
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    Jan 2012
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    Yacolt, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine View Post
    Hi Ed...

    I don't know. We take all xrays from the back.

    --Linda
    Linda, Unsure what you mean by, "We take all xrays from the back".
    When I had my surgery at UCSF I had xrays taken from the front.
    Susan
    Adult Onset Degenerative Scoliosis @65, 25* T & 36* L w/ 11.2 cm coronal balance; T kyphosis 90*; Severe disc degen T & L stenosis

    2013: T3- S1 Fusion w/ ALIF L4-S1/XLIF L2-4, PSF T4-S1 in 2 surgeries
    2014: Hernia @ ALIF repaired; Emergency screw removal surgery for Spinal Cord Injury at T4,5 sec to PJK
    2015: Revision Broken Bil T & L rods and no fusion: 2 revision surgeries; hardware P. Acnes infection
    2016: Ant/Lat Lumbar diskectomy w/ 4 cages + BMP + harvested bone + prayer

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    254
    Thank you for the information, it is very interesting.
    Patty 51 years old
    Surgery May 23, 2007(43 Birthday)
    Posterior T3- L4
    Pre surgery curves
    T-53degrees
    L-38degrees
    and a severe side shift to the right.
    Post surgery curves
    Less than 10 degrees
    Surgery April, 2006
    C4 - C6

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    reno,nevada
    Posts
    3,531

    Introduction to Chest Radiology University of Virginia

    When I think about this, I was x-rayed from the back (PA), and the front (AP), and the side, and along with the benders....

    I guess they wanted to look at everything......I didn’t realize...

    https://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/cour...cxr/index.html

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    6,793
    Susan... I think you're right. I'm thinking that we must have changed to A/P when we switched out to low does technology several years ago.

    Ed... Spine xrays look identical regardless of whether they're taken from the front or the back, so I wonder why they would have taken both views. Is it possible they take oblique views for some reason?

    --Linda
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  13. #13
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    Linda, they were looking for cancer....they can see all sorts of things on x-rays....

    My CT’s and radiologists reports revealed some things that I wasn’t especially pleased with.....that I wouldn’t have found out about if I hadn’t insisted on my reports right after they were completed. All stuff that had nothing to do with my spine. Careful what you ask for...... I have had plenty of heavy metals exposure making items for the Air Force through the years......and my surgeon’s knew about my history. (One breath of pure Beryllium dust and you’re history.)

    MSDS started thousands of years ago, but in the metals industry it wasn’t law until around 1987 I believe..... Things like Beryllium were delivered with a skull and crossbones on the box, and I would get a phone call. It was more of a word of mouth sort of thing many years ago.

    I am “extremely” safety oriented today, and for good reason, and environmentally astute. I grew up in a supefund site, and used to work at a superfund site. McClellan AFB.

    I hung around Berry’s creek as a kid. Its in NJ. It has THE highest concentration of Mercury, and this causes nervous system and kidney damage.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berrys_Creek

    https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/metalsheavy/

    We are destroying our planet.

    I cry about it everyday.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
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    8,901
    Wow Ti Ed that was an interesting post! I looked up Berry's Creek. Those are some high soil concentrations but I am guessing/hoping the form is elemental (metallic). That is not toxic to my understanding. It is only toxic when it gets converted to an organic form (methyl- ethyl-, dimethyl-, etc.) by anaerobic bacteria in sediments. I will try to chase down what concentrations of the organic forms have been measured in the creek area.

    I agree we are destroying the planet. A prominent scientist, Jim Lovelock who is an atmospheric chemist. He became independently wealthy by inventing the electron-capture detector for gas chromatographs which he sold to Hewlett-Packard and everyone uses it. He got a patent even though it is essentially the same principle as a Geiger counter. Anyway, he used his "leisure" to develop the Gaia hypothesis among other things. I mention him because he thinks w.r.t. climate change, we are beyond the tipping. Even if everyone was on board trying to stop the train, it is too late in his opinion. If that is correct, these Superfund sites will not matter but I certainly hope he isn't right.

    Despite that, I am alarmed at the wastelands humans have created. We are in the 6th large extinction. No place is too remote to be rendered a wasteland (e.g., Chevron in Ecuador - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lago_Agrio_oil_field).

    We are creating problems we can't fix even if the money and will were there. This is our home and the only one we will ever have. I fear for future generations.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    reno,nevada
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    Sharon, I just lost my response and I’m going to die now.....Must be the “toxic” nature of the post...

    Its either a Win 8 problem, or me. Probably me. (smiley face)

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

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