PT as a treatment of scoliosis

[LindaRacine]

There are much better ways to strengthen one's core than weight lifting.

[flerc]

May you say us which are those ways?

[Pooka1]

Planks, supermans, balance exercises, ab machines (slide on an arc), kettle bells, TRX, anything that requires stabilization of the core. I work with a personal trainer and I have pretty hard abs in relatively little time due mostly to those things I mention. I have never done a sit up yet and they are not as good as these other things.

Lifting weights can work the abs but I don't think they are as targeted as the things I mention. Not sure. I do weights also but I am not sure they work the core like the other things. I'll try to remember to ask my trainer.

[boogaloo]

Its interesting how discs always seem to herniate in the direction of the spinal cord. It probably wouldn’t matter if they herniated in any other direction, but when they extrude or protrude and touch the spinal cord, this new type of pain becomes a serious problem and once this happens its not an easy battle. Leaning forward compresses the front of the disc and forces the disc material towards the rear in this wedge. Bending over forward and lifting weights off the floor is a great way of creating this destructive scenario.

I had 4 CT verified lumbar disc herniation’s in my 70 degree lumbar curve and currently have 2 cervical herniation’s with no scoliosis....This leads me to believe that we as scolis have underlying disc and end plate problems from the start and scoliosis is or can be the result. Forces exasperate the problem. Here is a study of interest for us. It explains a lot.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253511/

When I was younger, I led an extremely physical life, and being a life long active skier meant that my body was in very good shape. My surgeon verified this through my blood work leading into my scoliosis surgeries. Everything was great except for my spine....I abused my spine, I have no doubt about that, but I wouldn’t have changed a thing since my old skiing days were part of me and my story....I also felt great while skiing, so I kept skiing.

I have a friend that wouldn’t think about hopping on his bike and pedaling 500 miles. He would ride and compete in these long distance competitions whenever he had a chance. He had a heart attack last week and is in a coma right now. Age 62. I don’t know what to say about this....did he wear out his heart?

I have come to the conclusion that over exercise is overrated. It can be destructive, and needs moderation and direction.

I know its hard when we enjoy doing these things, we like to have fun, but its probably wise to keep these things in mind.


Ed

I agree with all you said. That is why it is so important to maintain neutral lumbar spine when lifting off the floor and while sitting. Flexing the lumbar spine is what causes instability there and pushes discs in the direction of spinal cord, especialy under heavy load.
Over excercising and pushing your body through the limits is destructive. Every sport on a professional level is destructive, that is just the reality.

[boogaloo]

The role of weight training in treating farmers with lumbar discopathy
Abstract
INTRODUCTION: Weight training can have a very positive impact on the body by improving both the functioning of internal organs and motor coordination. Weakening of the muscles leads to spinal pain, which in turn reduces one's mobility, this further decreasing muscular strength. Weight training can be used to treat both motor dysfunction and lumbar pain, but it is crucial to combine it with flexibility exercises. The aim of the presented study is to demonstrate the need for including physical exercises into the rehabilitation of patients diagnosed with degenerative disc disease in the lumbar vertebrae.

MATERIAL AND METHODS: The research was carried out on 120 patients who were agricultural workers. Each of them had been diagnosed as qualifying for surgery due to a herniated nucleus pulposus at the L4/L5 and L5/S1 levels. After all conventional methods had been tried, strength exercises were applied. The equipment used for the exercises included a multi- gym, dumbbells, weight training rods with plates chosen for a particular groups of muscles. General fitness exercises were also a part of the programme.

RESULTS: The observed results indicate that, sooner or later, weight training leads to full recovery and as such is therapeutically indispensable. By developing antagonistic and synergistic muscular actions, exercises bring relief and allow reduction in the intake of analgesic drugs. As a result, all the patients recuperated. It should be remembered that one week's immobilization reduces muscle strength and endurance by 20%. All the patients who enrolled in the weight training programme were able to avoid back surgery. Systematic exercises improved their neuro-muscular coordination.

This is interesting, 100% success rate.

[Pooka1]

I don't know if it is parallel but when I herniated a disc, I was told it would heal if I rested it. Or I could do core work. I did some core work but mainly rested it. It healed for over 20 years until I herniated that or a nearby disc riding. I refused to accept it and tried to continue riding for 1.5 years but it never healed. By the way, riding is all core and I had a pretty good core during this time. Remembering I was told it would heal if I rested it, I rested it, stopped riding my horse for 3 months (the longest time I have ever stepped off him) and it healed completely. No core work, no weight training, etc. I am back riding most days a week with no issue.

I strongly suspect a control group who simply rested their backs would have 100% success also. It amazes me people still do studies without control groups. Not sure why that would be published.

[titaniumed]

Each of them had been diagnosed as qualifying for surgery due to a herniated nucleus pulposus at the L4/L5 and L5/S1 levels.

Wow! I don’t know what to say....and all farmers?

I would like to see the link....(smiley face)

Ed

[boogaloo]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...20degeneration
Yeah it seems that there is no control group. But why they stated that they were qualified for surgery if hernia heals on it's own? They also stated that they started weight training after ALL other conventional methods have been tried. I agree that study without control group is pretty sloppy...

[Pooka1]

I'm not claiming to know what is going on here but I think this herniated disc surgery is claimed to be the most overused surgery. Not sure. Maybe Linda knows.

This reminds me of a "treatment" called pin firing in thoroughbred race horses... they actually use a hot small metal piece and burn several superficial holes into a horse's lower leg. The treatment appeared to be successful for decades until someone isolated the actual reason for success... enforced rest the horses got after the procedure. The rested by not treated horses had the same cure rate. These owners would not rest the horse if it wasn't treated.

[boogaloo]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...bone%20density
Note that bone mineral density increased in weight training group and it did not increase in core training group. It is known that scoliosis in womens deteriorates as they enter menopause and their bone density starts to decrease. It means it would be highly beneficial for this group of women to engage in this sort of training. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed...159265/related

[Pooka1]

I have heard that. You have to do weight bearing exercise to increase or maintain bone density.

The tendency to osteoporosis must be hereditary as there is none that I know of in my family despite most of them being sedentary. Before I started working out I had plenty of bone for example. But that said, I do think that women with scoliosis may have an issue with osteoporosis just from reading the testimonials here. But these women have to balance building bone with protecting their discs if they have a curve. As I understand Dr. Hey, it is the misalignment of the vertebra as in an untreated curve that will affect disc health. That is a powerful reason to straighten a T curve... to hope to save the L spine.

[boogaloo]

Yes probably it is hereditary. Our genes count for 90% of our health. If my genetic potential is to live 80 years there is no way I could live 85 years. But if I lived unhealthy life I could die at 65. Same thing is happening with diseases.
Here we are talking about things that we can do to hold things under control and reach our genetic potential, no matter how screwed it is haha
By the way, horse riding is surely bad for your discs. Stop doing it :P
I agree about fusing the T spine IF the curve is PROGRESSIVE. But fusing 40° T curve that is not progressing at the moment just because it MIGHT cause disc problems in the future is absurd. Or if curve is progressing so slow that curve will get to 50° in 20 years. Who knows if you will be alive next week, not to talk about 20 years. Clear guidelines must be known to ensure that right patients get best possible treatment for their specific case, which is sometimes very hard.

[flerc]

As I know is a fact that fusion is bad for discs under the fixed zone. Everything is complex and the current knowledge is not enough, and there's not something as a Scoliosis Body of Knowledge from where we may see the relevant facts in order to arrive to reasonable conclusions. Nobody in the world seems to be interested in make it, so we must to fight in the dark.
As I know is a fact what you say about bone density, but I think is right without scoliosis. According to the Wolff's law, if you increase the pressure over vertebras in a curve, it would turn it more curve. This is surely the worse point against lifting weights, except that muscles may straight enough the spine. It was an old and fantastic Schroth's video (it was removed) showing 2 teens with big curves straightening her spines doing a de-rotatory exercise and they showed how many inches they grows, surely it would be better than lifting weights.

[Pooka1]

By the way, horse riding is surely bad for your discs. Stop doing it :P

Hey you're not kidding! Olympic level riders have bad backs so it must be the actual riding and not incorrect riding as some claim.

[boogaloo]

Yeah I am not kidding, it is sarcasm. As I said before every sport on a professional level is destructive. They have to over excercise to get that 1% advantage over the others to win the 1st place.
But recreational sport is way better than doing nothing, so keep enjoying your rides