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Thread: Connection between degenerative disc/scoliosis and prior idiopathic scoliosis

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    105
    Does anyone post op feel that their muscles get atrophy or are weaker, get more sore quickly then they had been pre-op because of the fusion. Since my surgeon told me that having surgery is like putting a hard brace inside a person's body, I would be wondering if the muscles get atrophied as well from all the stiffness around the spine, especially with the spinal erector muscles.


    @rohrer: Singapore is pretty much at par with the western countries when it comes to scoliosis surgeries since the condition seems very common there. They even have schroth and spinecor rehabilitation there now. But perhaps I can also get it when I immigrate to Canada, but I don't know when and if my visa will get approved.
    Last edited by Jinseeker; 03-17-2014 at 01:47 AM.
    31 yr old male with non-progressive Idiopathic scoliosis

    15-37 degrees- upper thoracic ( w/ left shoulder trap higher, head tilted more to the right)
    45-52 degrees- mid thoracic (to the right, w/ rib hump)
    25-30 degrees- lumbosacral curve (to the left w/ lumbar hump, right pelvis is higher than left)

    currently doing schroth exercises and counter postural techniques("side shifting")
    using rib and lumbar support belts. still contemplative about surgery.

    >>My X-ray<<

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    My DIL has atrophy along her fusion and she complains of her muscles cramping and being sore. She's still glad she had it done.

    My worry about having your surgery in Singapore, unless you are a resident there, would be that if someone messed you up, there would be no legal recourse for you. There may not even be any surgical recourse. I'm uneasy about people going out of their own country for surgery. But, that's just my feeling. Of course, for Canadians I feel differently because, while their healthcare is great, they have waiting lists. A couple of kids from there almost died waiting for their surgeries. They both ended up having to come to the U.S. because their curves were well above 100o! They would have died waiting to be seen.
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    402
    Hi Linda,

    I think Ed is referring to the forum that I'm mod/admin at, SSO (scoliosis-support,org, *not* SOS, that's the name of a nonsurgical clinic). I am a member of the NHS's Complex Spinal Surgery Clinical Reference Group and have monthly conferences with a number of the UK's top spinal surgeons as well as hearing from the UK based members at SSO; I can confirm that thoracoplasties aka costoplasties are still being done in the UK for certain cases where the surgeon feels they can get more cosmetic correction than fusion alone. This is by no means every case, and we are seeing fewer of these surgeries performed than in previous years, but it's not a rare occurrence either. In most cases the costoplasty is done at the same time as fusion surgery, though occasionally patients have them done as a standalone procedure at a later date. Most candidates are those who had very large curvatures to begin with, or who had fusion surgery years ago using Harrington Rods and other systems which didn't derotate the spine.

    Maybe our UK surgeons are way behind those in the US, I can't comment on that. I'll be at the UK's BritSpine conference next month and will make sure to ask why the costoplasty surgery is much more commonly done over here than it is in your part of the world.












    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine View Post
    Hi Ed...

    I can't imagine why they'd still be doing thoracoplasties in England. All of the implant systems in use today, at least in the hands of experienced surgeons, do very thorough derotations. (There's an animation of a derotation procedure HERE.) It's possible that SOS is behind the times, and it's just their patients posting. Scary! I do know one British scoliosis specialist. I'll try to remember to ask him when I next see him.

    I think number of levels is more indicative of complexity than diagnosis is. It's very unlikely that anyone with 7+ levels fused has anything other than deformity. And, using diagnosis might be a little deceptive because there are more than a few degenerative scoliosis patients who have only 2-3 levels fused, and many of those patients have a chief diagnosis of stenosis.

    --Linda

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    NC
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    9,280
    Tonibunny! Thanks for clearing that up. We are lucky to have you. :-)
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #80
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    May 2008
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    reno,nevada
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    Tonibunny, I guess that’s pretty bad when you don’t know the name of the forum you post on.....(Edith Bunker stare)

    Sometimes I post and can barely see my computer anymore. This must be a scoliosis “forum” complication.....funny my surgeon didn’t mention this one. It must have been my Roy Orbison glasses being too dark. (smiley face)

    It would be interesting to know why the Americans are reluctant on thoracoplasty and why the British are doing these procedures. I know I mentioned it with my surgeon years ago and he flat out said no....I wonder if this has something to do with the Scoliosis Research Society?

    Many posters here have major hesitation when it comes to fusing down low to the pelvis.....and I don’t blame them but I did come out fine in that regard. Now with myself, it’s the anterior thoracic surgeries that scare the heck out of me. I cant imagine what that feels like. Breathing must be rough.

    Anyway, trying to keep back on track, I think this weighs on the decision.....and I wouldn’t have had to do my invasive ALIF if I wouldn’t have waited so long.

    Timing is so critical.

    Jinseeker, The answer is yes, muscles get weaker after surgery, but recover in time. I have permission to lift 100# now.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 61, the new 61...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    7,104
    Thanks Toni... I'll be anxious to hear what response you hear. As far as I know, only 1 thoracoplasty has been done amongst the 5 UCSF ortho spine surgeons in the last 4 years. The results they're getting from the current implants are pretty amazing. In a lot of cases, with the exception of the scar, you simply cannot tell that anything was ever wrong.

    Are you also hearing about thoracotomies routinely? Our surgeons have occasionally done one (I can only remember one case since I've been there), but they've thankfully become very rare. As someone who got sliced open from about 2" above my waist in the back to about 4" from my belly button, I can attest that this is a barbaric procedure.

    --Linda
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    402
    Sorry Ed, didn't mean to sound stern! I should have put a *smileyface* - it's an easy mistake to make *smileyface*

    Linda, I very rarely hear of open thoracotomies - in fact I can't remember the last time anyone mentioned having one. I underwent one myself when I was ten, back in 1986, in order to do a thoracic anterior release (I had a nasty stiff 80 degree curve through having Infantile Idiopathic Scoliosis). My scar from that runs along my ribcage under my breastline and finishes just under my left armpit. I had three weeks in halo-tibial traction then posterior fusion from T1-T12. I also had an anterior/posterior procedure on my lumbar curve when I had my fusion extended to include that curve in 1994. Two-stage surgeries are still fairly common for large curves in the UK though thoracic discs are dealt with via a minimally invasive technique rather than open thoracotomy. I had my fusion extended down a level using the XLIF procedure (with some pedicle screws for stability) in 2006 so I'm now fused T1-L4.

    I've had two costoplasties, but I don't know of anyone else that has ever needed two. One was done at the same time as my 1994 surgeries and the other was done in 2001 as it became apparent that a lot more cosmetic correction could be achieved. My back still has a very obvious deformity as I still have a lot of rotation but it doesn't bother me as it is amazing compared to how it looked when I was a child (I started out with a 64/40 degree double curve at six months of age). I feel sad that we seem to be getting increasing numbers of young patients who want to achieve a perfectly flat back and are disappointed with their post-op results, having what I'd consider to be fantastic cosmetic corrections.

    Of the spinal surgeons with whom I have monthly meetings, three are members of the SRS. Our group has about 10 surgeons, each representing a different area of the UK, so we only have one London-based representative despite most of the best scoliosis specialists being located there.

    Toni

  8. #83
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    reno,nevada
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    Toni, I shouldn’t have assumed that the old television sitcom “All in the Family” was aired in the UK, but it was a classic show here in the states years ago, and I’m sure many older readers rolled off their chairs in laughter remembering some of her facial expressions. Jean Stapleton was a brilliant actress who played the part of Edith Bunker. Only she could have done it..... She passed away last May and I was thinking about her.....No worries
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31D3BU1LbjE

    I have always tried to infuse some laughter when at all possible since our discussions and experiences are hard enough to deal with. Some might think, what the heck is he doing, and after, hopefully realize, that in all our seriousness we need to laugh once in a while.....

    I agree with you about some patients that are not satisfied unless they have a perfectly flat back and having perfect symmetry. I was told I could be fused “As is” and wasn’t concerned much about anything other than pain relief. Yes, some straightness would be nice, but coming through serious deformity surgery is a blessing. And of course, many years ago its was a different story.

    Thanks for chiming in....

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 61, the new 61...
    Pre surgery curves T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  9. #84
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3,745
    Hey...hey...hey

    i am most definitely a Roy Orbison fan...who could not be a fan
    of his...? maybe if you are too young to know who he is...was...
    but then, if you are too young, may i humbly suggest looking him
    up and listening to his music on your computer...?
    listen to his voice....or to K.D. Lang sing his songs...
    memorable!!!

    jess...and Sparky

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,764
    Quote Originally Posted by jrnyc View Post
    Hey...hey...hey

    i am most definitely a Roy Orbison fan...who could not be a fan
    of his...? maybe if you are too young to know who he is...was...
    but then, if you are too young, may i humbly suggest looking him
    up and listening to his music on your computer...?
    listen to his voice....or to K.D. Lang sing his songs...
    memorable!!!

    jess...and Sparky
    I can't stand to listen to Roy Orbison. He's off key a LOT. It just drives me insane. But, my dear hubby loves him. We went online one time and listened to Roy Orbison for hours. Hubby was happy. I just cringed every time he didn't hit the note quite right.

    In Roy's defense, he led a very tragic life. Poor man. :'-(
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

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